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Need some Stories help!


Knobb

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Hi all, let me start by giving a bit of a background of my CAD experience. I started working for a company that used an Autocad based software called Build, a decision was made to go with a different CAD program. We looked at Vectorworks, Archicad, and also Revit. After some long discussion we went with Revit. Let me say I LOVE REVIT! Anyways, after being laid off for an extensive amount of time, and needing a job, I took a position at a company that uses Vectorworks.

To be very honest, I am frustrated beyond belief because VW to me is STILL a 2D cad program. That being said, I know of it's capabilities to turn out 3D renderings etc.

I need help! And I hope that I don't turn this into a comparison thread, because that is not my intention.

I am trying to set up stories as I would in Revit. But it's not working out the way I am hoping.

My drawings usually consist of levels for the following:

- ceil'g of second floor level - from here the roof is drawn so in essence this is also the roof level.

- Second floor level - this level is used to draw walls, windows, doors etc. With the -ceil'g of second floor level being the top.

- ceil'g of main floor level - between this level and the -second floor level is the floor system.

- Main floor level - same as the second floor level, wall, doors, windows are drawn here and the ceil'g of main floor is the top of this level.

- underside of floor - same as the ceil'g of second floor, this is where the floor system is drawn. And if the house does not require a crawl space it is deleted.

- foundation level - this level contains foundation walls, and wither the main floor or the underside of joists level are the top.

- footing level - this is the last level, and contains the footings for any posts, and foundation walls. the foundation level is the top of this level.

So... When I am drawing in revit I draw on the level that i want the walls etc, to show up on, as in VW.

How can i set up a similar story system in VW?

Also in a lot of the 'How To's' when drawing a floor or roof system I can't figure out what layer/ level they are being drawn on. What is the best way to do this?

I hope i haven't bored anyone, and I really appreciate any help any one can provide!

Tim

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Not an answer to your question but some perspective.

I've been working in VW since 1996. Stories are a feature that was added just last year. Often it takes quite a few updates of VW for new features to get 'up to snuff' you might say. I looked at Stories in the last upgrade and frankly I saw more hassles then they were worth. Granted my look wasn't an exhaustive study. I currently do fully 2d/3d hybrid plan/modeling without using Stories at all. I simply manage my 3d Z-heights with my layer elevations and wall heights.

Others who have flushed out the use of Stories will likely give you pointers on their use and likely work arounds for the short comings I'm assuming the feature has. In my current understanding I view them as Layer Groupings if that helps.

I just wanted to let you know you can use VW very effectively without using them at all.

Joe

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You need to have only two stories:

- (F00) First/Main/Ground floor

- (F01) Second floor

Set the height of these stories to the height of the floor finish of that story.

Then you will need to make layers that will fit in thoses stories. These layers will represent key elevation for your building. Thus you will have a layer to define the finish floor level, you will have a layer to define the top of the structural slab, one for the underside of the structural slab, which is the same as the top of the ceiling, one for the roof and one for foundation.

Then you can draw the objects on the layers wherever you want. Walls etc... can then bound to those key elevations of the story.

I'll attach a pic of a simple story setting. If you want more info, just ask.

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Knobb,

When you create a storey, certain layers will automatically be created. These layer types can be selected on creation of storey. See pic 1 - you will notice that I have slab, floor and ceiling layers created.

Layer types are important also, as these allow you to bind certain objects to layers within the storey, such as walls etc. Notice Design Layer 1 - this layer is not part of the storey and doesn't have a layer type associated with it, therefore you cannot bind objects to it (see pic 2). The good thing about this is that you can draw stuff independent of the model and keep it on this layer.

As an ex user of Revit I can say this, you need to accept the VW concept:

1) Revit Levels = layers in VW

2) Layers/storeys in VW are not shown in elevations (or sections) as levels are shown in Revit.

What I like about VW is it's flexibility. However, this flexibility does come at a cost, and some BIM functions are certainly below par when compared to the competition out there(the following doesn't exist yet: live sections, live hidden line rendering, surface hatching in 3D, visual representation of storey layers in elevations and sections etc)

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Edited by Kizza
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Just out of curiosity, why is a foundation not considered a Storey?

It has height, typically tall enough for head clearance.

Must it be a basement?

Crawl space is another matter.

When it's not a basement, it can just be a layer on the floor story. There isn't much about the foundation than just some concrete and concrete blocks, for how we build here of course. When it's a basement, a story for it will be better.

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first off, let me say thank you!! i think i now have a better understanding of how these story layers work. My only question now is how floors are drawn. What i mean is, in Revit i would draw a floor system in one of the levels between the main floor and the second floor, for example.

Also, the layer "slab" is the actual floor system layer correct?

again, thanks for all the help all!

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Slabs are the floor. Concrete, wood, etc.

Maybe confusing to some as slabs are usually concrete depending on where you reside.

Floors (slabs), are part of the storey(s) just as walls and ceilings are.

The layers (Design Layers), within a given story may also have a Level Type associated with them for bounding purposes.

Use as few layers per story as possible.

EX: 1 Storey home with foundation (crawl space). This is where the flexibility of classes comes into play. Great for 3D.

Foundation: (includes footing if needed) in its own class.

Slab (floor): Sill plate, joists, sheathing, walls in their own classes. You could put all floor components in (1) class. Depends on your needs. Same for walls.

Finish Floor: Hardwood, etc.

Ceiling: Could be just the finish ceiling or it could include the framing as well. Ceiling surface in it's own class separate from framing.

Roof: Surface (roof planes) in it's own class. Rafters and such in separate class(s) or in (1) separate class depending on how you work and what your needs are.

Otherwise, you would have a Design Layer for every component that makes a storey. This would also make bounding and vertical alignment a nightmare.

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ok thanks taoist!

Here's another question... is it possible to reverse engineer stories?

What I mean is are you able set up layers, and then assign those layers to stories?

Yes, totally possible. Just edit your layer and you'll see you can set the story for it.

It's actually the way we work here. We first set all stories without any layers. Then we define the layers we need and add them to the story they belong to.

This is also important for projects that are already in development and you want to introduce stories to it.

Edited by DWorks
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When setting up default story layers, and setting the elevation, and heights of them, what is the proper way to think of the layers? Do you enter the elevations and heights as if stories didn't exist, so they stack on top of eachother? Or do you set the layers up as if they are their own story, and then adjust the height of the story to what ever you need to.

Does that make any sense?

Thanks

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

The default story layer elevations are set relative to the story, whatever elevation that may be. So, yes, you set them up as if they are their own story, and then adjust the elevation of the story as required. Because the layers are defined relative to the story, when the story moves, its layers, and bound objects, will adjust with it.

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