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AutoClose Polygons


bcd

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Yes. It would be nice to be able to hit the "c" key, for instance, and have the polygon/polyline automatically close. Goes for walls, hardscapes, landscape areas, floors, slabs, roofs, etc. And make them all the same (= consistency). I forget which, but one of the above does have an auto close function, I think by double-clicking at the last point. But I can't remember which one.

Monadnoc

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I don't know about this one. Elaborate a bit on the problem.

Not all unclosed quads are the same. A quad (or any faceted shape) would be unclosed because of one or more wrong angles, one or more wrong lengths, or a combo of those.

If the intent is a closed quad, and it is not drawn closed, there are infinitely many ways to close it (esp #4). How is this proposed command expected to perform?

1. Extend (or trim) and change angle of A side to connect at end point of B side.

2. Reverse of #1.

3. Angle changes for both A&B and extend both to midpoint of gap.

4. Angle changes and extends for both A&B to some other point.

5. Extend A & B to meet, all angles remain same.

If the quad is improperly snapped during creation, the angles and/or lengths could also be incorrect in the new closed object.

-B

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I agree with the "over think" comment. It is a very basic function, and one which (I hate to say) AutoCAD has had since forever. One of the few things I like about AutoCAD. Whatever you are drawing, in any tool, when you get to the last corner, you simply hit the "c" key and it automatically draws a line from the last corner clicked to the first corner. No matter how close or how far away it is. And usually it is quite far. That's the whole point. To save the time of dragging your mouse across the entire screen. Very simple. 99% of the time that's all I want.

I dug around, and it's the Slab tool that already has this functionality. Whenever and wherever you're at, double-click and it automatically closes. I don't need it to be the "c" key. A double click is even better. Quicker. No need to hunt down the "c" key. Here is the info from the "Help" files, edited for the pertinent parts:

To draw a manual slab object:

1. Click the Slab tool from the Building Shell tool set, and select Polyline Entry mode from the Tool bar.

....

4. Similarly to drawing a polygon, create a closed slab shape.

Double-click while drawing to close the slab automatically.

Monadnoc

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I am not against having such a command, I just don't trust that it will perform as imagined. Describe the problem and say what exactly this new function should do - maybe I will sign on. But only after I overthink it.

If there are several or many points to connect into a poly (which I like - 3d, too), that's a different command than closing an existing unclosed poly by modifying either the angles, segment lengths or both.

That "basic function" for closing polys in ACad might explain why I get so many sloppy, imprecise dwg objects imported into my drawings - angles Wouldn't Vectorworks polys modified by such a command be just as wonky as the ACad equivalents? Easy to draw, but imprecise.

Is this a problem of missing the final snap during poly creation? Could it be due to smart point acquisition time? all those mid points, quarter points, grid points, extensions to other existing objects, etc? Click to complete the poly on any of these, and it's unclosed, angles and side lengths are not as intended. I don't see how the proposed command helps with this. Slow down the acquisition time in prefs, adjust the snap radius, and the problem goes away.

-B

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:)

ok

I want to draw an irregular 3 sided polygon depicting a tabletop = 4 clicks.

click once for point a

point b

point c

and again on point a to close.

abc are already defined, I'm just asking VW to autoclose without requiring the last (and unnecessary) step.

You make some valid points re. accuracy, snap points etc.

The assumption is that abc are already defined as accurate or not as they may be.

The requirement to make an accurate selection on point a and click to define the line segment [ac] is redundant and a possible source for error.

Judicious use of snaps, acquisition time etc. are workflows to help minimize the chance of error whereas AutoClose would guarantee accuracy (& speed) every time.

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I agree with bcd that auto close actually increases accuracy. I can understand your hesitancy, since it is an unknown thing for you. And we probably haven't described its function very well. The only reason I am all for it is that I have used it all the time for the last 12 years whenever I'm using AutoCAD. And I've never had it once do something unexpected. Maybe because I only use it for simple shapes and situations, where all I want is the last segment drawn between the last point clicked and the first point clicked. It's a great time saver and it increases accuracy.

I would think the sloppy drawings you get are because, for some unknown reason, most of the people who use AutoCAD are very sloppy drafters. I've dealt with thousands of drawings from AutoCAD people, and I'm constantly amazed at how poorly drawn they always are. Gaps between points (probably because they didn't use auto close), bad angles, things almost, but not quite, lining up, objects on the wrong layers, you name it. I think one of the factors is that AutoCAD has the worst snapping I've ever seen. I can't count how many times it told me I was snapped to an endpoint and when I zoomed in it wasn't. I've learned to work way, way zoomed in when snapping in AutoCAD. Although I have to admit, one of the biggest disappointments/frustrations I have with coming back to Vectorworks is it's terrible snapping now. Just like AutoCAD. Must have had an ex-AutoCAD engineer redesign it. But I have a feeling it's just the default setting that is what's wonky. But I can't find how to adjust the sensitivity of snapping in VW. It always snaps to things I don't want it to. Anyone know where to set the distance from points before it will acquire them? (Not Snap to Distance - but the distance from an endpoint before the snap activates/grabs it).

Ah, but I digress ...

Monadnoc

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To try and describe the "auto close" functionality a bit further. It isn't for closing existing polygons, but something you activate to fill in the last straight line/segment in any shaped polygon while you're drawing it. It's just the finishing touch. And simply does what you would manually do anyway - which is move your hand over to the first point you drew until you see a little snap hint and click on the first point to close your polygon. It just saves you that last step of hovering over the starting point. Nothing fancy or unexpected. It doesn't change any angles of any other points, doesn't extend anything, doesn't move corners. Basically, it's the same as if you do have an existing open polygon, and check the "close" box in the OIP. It does the exact same thing. Just fills in that last open segment automatically, from point to point. Only it does it while you're still drawing the polygon, instead of having to go check that box after it's done. And it doesn't do it unless you tell it to, either by hitting a key ("C") or double-clicking. If you didn't do either of those it would still work exactly like it currently does.

Now I've probably made it clear as mud ...

Monadnoc

Edited by Monadnoc
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Benson,

Your comment about "adjust the snap radius" is no doubt why I'm having a problem (for the last year) snapping in VW. That's what I'm looking for - a way to adjust the snap radius. I've done a search in the Help files but there is nothing on it. I also read all the snapping parameters/settings for all the snap tabs and nothing there. Even did a Google search but not much help there either. Would it be tied to the Snap Box Size parameter under the Interactive tab? I would be forever in your debt if you could point me in the right direction so I can get useable snaps in VW again. (I always had a feeling it was more a case of user stupidity then broken snapping).

Thanks.

Monadnoc

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Thank you. I will go fiddle with those and hopefully get it to behave like it used to for me. I have fiddled with those box sizes before, but thinking they were just for display purposes, and not realizing they were also effecting the snap radius. I probably screwed it up myself without knowing it.

Thanks again.

Monadnoc

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Well, I just turned down the two box sizes as far as I could get them (they weren't that far off, one or two units) and it is working much better. I was able to successfully snap to three corners that were in close proximity to each other without a problem. It used to jump all over the place before. It apparently is very sensitive, because I didn't change things that much.

Thanks again.

Monadnoc

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This would of course be a logical addition, however if you can accept a double-click instead of a single this kind of 'accuracy' is already available using the close checkbox in the OIP in as many clicks as you are suggesting:

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7256&filename=Sk%E4rmavbild%202012-05-26%20kl.%2009.16.58.png

Edited by Vincent C
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Checking the "close" checkbox requires you to interrupt your drawing, look across the screen, drag your cursor across the screen, then concentrate on aiming on a tiny checkbox and clicking on that, then going back to your original position to resume drawing. I could draw another polygon in the time it takes to do all that.

It's speed as well as accuracy I'm wanting.

Monadnoc

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VW already has implemented this in the Slab tool, so figuring out to do it isn't the problem. They just need to incorporate it into all the other tools.

Try the Slab tool if you aren't understanding how this works. The only thing is it doesn't have the option to not do it, which is a necessity for all the other tools.

Monadnoc

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