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ray isaacs

systemic dtm problem(s)?

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:cry: I am having continuing and serious problems directly and indirectly related to terrain models. every vw document containing a terrain model sooner or later seems to be corrupted with a variety of tools and operations failing or crashing. the tech support people have worked hard to address individual cases. but, i am convinced that there is a deeper, systemic problem with the dtm. i can't imaging that i am the only user encountering this. is anyone have a similar experience? any possible resolutions?

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could it be dxf files that are corrupting my documents?

in trying to move my project forward and trying to figure out why my documents are getting corrupted, i did this...

when i opened a fresh vw file and imported a dxf file (attached "dxf base" ), the select working plane tool and push pull tool do not work on an extruded cube. when i create a viewport, export the view of the dxf as a pdf, open a fresh vw file, import the pdf, then create an extruded cube, the selection working plane and push pull tool work. it appears that dxf files are somehow corrupting my vw files. i checked with several dxf's and got the same result. in fact i've been suspicious of dxf's in vw for a while; this is the first direct test.

i want to believe that the select working plane and push pull failures are symptoms of the larger problem i described in the original post (above). has anyone had a similar experience importing dxf files?

looking forward to your input.

ray isaacs

vw 2012

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Yes, it's entirely possible. I always try to import files into a clean 'dummy' file first, then take only the data I need, via copy and paste, into the working file. So for a site model I would find and copy only the topog/contours into my working file. Usually I would do this first, then create the site model, then start to model the building(s)...

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peter,

thanks for responding. i just got a response from tech support confirming this. they too recommend a 'dummy' file. apparently there are two (related?) issues: the presence of the dxf file itself and the geo-coordinates, as vw doesn't like to get far away from the origin. seems that the former (dxf) confounds the later (coordinates).

your solution is a way to get around this to some degree--i haven't really tested it yet.

but long term, vw needs to fix this. 1. today almost everything needs to be seamlessly geo-coded as jurisdictions rely more and more of gis data bases. 2. dxf and dwg are industry standards in sharing base information. hopefully, they are working on this.

ray

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Hi Ray, yes I agree that this is an important issue. One possible way to fix it *might* be to 1) Import the dxf/dwg into a blank clean file; 2) Find the approximate center of the data and RESET the ORIGIN to that point.

The problem could be that you might lose the actual geo-coordinates contained in the original file.

The fact is that most survey software uses actual coordinates referenced back to the closest "meridian" (at least in the US), which can be many (hundreds of ) miles from the actual project location.

So for now it's a bit of a conundrum...

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i remade the models for all for all of my current projects with dxf in a 'dummy' file. that solved some problems. however copying the shapes from the dxf yielded polygons that had 1000's of vertices. that seemed to be causing smoothing and some rendering problems. taking lots time (days) to literally trace the shapes as simpler polygons reduced the number of vertices to under 100, even less in cases. smoothing and rendering seem to work and model update is much faster. and the file size is way smaller.

hopefully the time invested now will save crisis time when the deadlines roll around--which has been happening.

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The inability to cope with objects which are far from the origin is a major issue for VW. Apparently, tech support says it is common to CAD programs (as cited in some other post here).

It essentially makes useless the shp file import and georeferencing capabilities that VW has included.

By the way, I have yet to find a shp file whose projection VW 2012 can actually deal with. Has anyone else?

Dillon

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Ray, you can reduce the vertex count of the poly's, after converting them to 3d poly's, using the command: AEC>Terrain>Simplify 3d Polys. Be aware that doing so will alter the resultant Site Model, making it [slightly to greatly] less accurate, depending on the degree of 'simplification'...

FWIW, I find the Site Model to be an essential tool and use one on nearly every project. I realize that it is only as accurate as the data I feed into it in the first place. Therefore if I have a survey in one foot contours, and I use that data exactly (no simplification) I assume/guess a possible error factor of up to one foot...

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short update...after recreating the site models for all of my current projects, (dxf's in dummy files, simplifying all polygons mostly by retracing--very time consuming) the overall size of my vw documents was dramatically smaller...by a factor of ten in some cases, and the site models update in 20 seconds or less--compared to 5-minutes before. so the time invested upfront seems to be worth it. it also appears that the 3d modeling and rendering functions are working more reliably--we'll see about that.

so there is hope.

i wish vectorworks was more upfront about this. none of the diagnosis or suggestions came from their support people in two years of contact. they need to be more in touch with what we really need to do to get our work done.

cheers.

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I am also having similar problems with dxf file and geo-coordinates graphics. Push Pull stopped working within these files and Fit to Objects not working as should.

Here in the UK I am involved in manage many large civil project, all requiring informtion to be drawn and shared in coordinated space, this seems to be a big problem with VW, which means a big problem trying to exchange coordinated information with others, a problem I have not encountered with Microstation, AutoCAD or GDS/MicroGDS (only with the users and not the software).

I agree also that DWG/DXF are industry standards in exchanging information, having a work around using 'dummy' file is not a cost effective way of working.

these two areas need to be addressed as a prioity.

Alan

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