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100 student rooms: how do we BIM it Nemetschek?


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Say we have one hundred student rooms or more, all the same size and configuration. What's the recommended way to BIM this?

How do we ensure we can schedule any doors within those rooms in the normal way and have the top and bottom of walls automatically set to a Storey Level Type? All the while being able to make changes to the layout of all rooms at once?

Can one of the BIM experts and NV answer this one?

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I hope this sounds clear because I don't know the exact grammar VW uses on stories:

(I had to do this with an appartement building past week)

Create layers that belong to a story but without level type. These layers will act as some sort of template. Because the layers belongs to a story, you will be able to bound elements like walls to level types. So draw one type of room here.

Now create layers where you want to get your template rooms in. You can use a DLVP to get them. The thing you need to know is that the elements will not adapt to other story heights etc... . The DLVP are just windows to the template configuration.

If you draw things on different layers, you will need to make a DLVP for each of them. Like when you want your cielings on a different layer than your floor plan.

I do believe that VW should recalculate the bounding of elements when you use a DLVP because most of the time you just want the layout for different heights. But for now, you will need to recreate the things if you have different heights.

You can do this in one file, or you can do it in different files. If the template rooms aren't too much I would prefer one file. Doing it in different files will force you to edit the level types on both files each time you change them.

You can also add elements that are unique to some rooms in this way and still being able to bound them.

Another 'bug' I noticed is that you may need to adjust the height of the DLVP to get the elevation correctly.

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Thanks Dieter, in my case all floor to ceiling heights are the same so it's going to be simpler for me to simply adjust the heights of the walls in my room template manually.

I'm mostly interested to hear how NV thinks we should be ideally approaching this.

How did you schedule your doors?

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lets see 100's of doors 100's of annotated VPs

Dieter, theres also the issue of if the elevations arent plumb..the annotated dimensions will be incorrect?

Hey Jeffrey..hows that Riverside (LOD) project going any further progress?-instructions-comments maybe?

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lets see 100's of doors 100's of annotated VPs

Dieter, theres also the issue of if the elevations arent plumb..the annotated dimensions will be incorrect?

Hey Jeffrey..hows that Riverside (LOD) project going any further progress?-instructions-comments maybe?

If the doors are the same, you only need one annotated VP.

I don't know what plumb means. Looked it up, but don't get it. Please explain.

I also really would like to see a BIM project worked out that actually looks good and make use of classes and class attributes. NVW should know how to use their own program?

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The VP Dimension tool only dimensions correctly if the walls are vertical (Plumb)in front view. 3D dimensions doesnt work in a VP annotation.

LOL...I'd like to see Real projects too, with real data.

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How did you schedule your doors?

We didn't. We don't make much schedules, but I geuss it isn't that difficult, depending on what you want for result.

We want to give every door a different number and we might want to schedule different hardware. And we want the schedule to update based on changes we make in the model to real objects. We don't want to be creating a separate layer of information that isn't directly linked to the objects.

Vectorworks just doesn't provide a ready solution for this. Either you choose to create symbols or viewports of your rooms so you can edit them easily, or you create every room separately so you can schedule everything in a proper BIM manner.

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Maarten, thanks, that's a reasonably straight forward workaround but it's still not proper BIM because any changes to the actual doors won't be reflected in the schedule. The schedule/record will have to be co-ordinated manually. And of course it still doesn't allow for variations between rooms.

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How do Revit and ArchiCAD deal with this issue? Do they have any sort of object/arrangement Type framework?

Revit defininetly has a very accomplished system (but that is mainly because it is the most parametric of the lot).

Working on some schedules at the moment and this is partly what it looks like:

Edited by Vincent C
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So many questions.....:grin:

Well I guess the room type would be a group (similar to a symbol in VWs) which can be edited as in VWs.

If you name the doors individually then you can edit it individually (similar doors with different parameters ie. width, height etc can be created in the same family with unique ids.

In the above screenshot Doors, the first 3 doors are in the same family but have different parameters = different widths and therefore ids, the 4th door is a different family. (you could say there are groups of doors in which you can have different types with different ids.

What makes this slightly more complex is that you can have families in families ie. you can have different door leaves in a family and connect this family to a door family and have the option to choose different leaves in this family as a parameter (ie. as it is with hardware in VWs doors)

Edited by Vincent C
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So many questions.....:grin:

Hehe, sorry, envious that you able to work with all the BIM apps!

Well I guess the room type would be a group (similar to a symbol in VWs) which can be edited as in VWs.

So you can't edit the rooms all at once (like you can with a symbol or viewport in VW)?

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So many questions.....:grin:

Hehe, sorry, envious that you able to work with all the BIM apps!

Don't be it's quite frustrating because each program has it's pros and cons so there is always something missing which one knows is possible somewhere else.

Well I guess the room type would be a group (similar to a symbol in VWs) which can be edited as in VWs.

So you can't edit the rooms all at once (like you can with a symbol or viewport in VW)?

Yes you can, they are created and edited exactly like in VWs symbols.

Edited by Vincent C
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edit all instances at once, create variations, and schedule individual doors?

You could easily add a parameter that connects a certain door to a certain space/room and use this as a field in the schedule to sort/filter and edit by. (It is possible to edit parameters in the schedules which are changed live in the actual door (types).

Edited by Vincent C
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Revit defininetly has a very accomplished system ..Working on some schedules at the moment and this is partly what it looks like:

Yay, visual door schedules...that's what we do...manually at the moment. I hope this comes to VW in the near future.

I also love the fact that schedules in Revit appear to be user friendly...with a simple dialog box for adding database fields to existing worksheets...you couldn't design a more opaque system than the VW worksheet interface if you tried.

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Yes you can, they are created and edited exactly like in VWs symbols.

If they're exactly like symbols in VW then how do they allow for variations between doors? Can you have a different door size in one room for instance? Or does that change all of them?

No,that's no different, it changes all, in that case I suggest you keep the walls which have different doors out of the group/symbol.

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edit all instances at once, create variations, and schedule individual doors?

You could easily add a parameter that connects a certain door to a certain space/room and use this as a field in the schedule to soort/filter and edit by. (It is possible to edit parameters in the schedules which are changed live in the actual door (types).

Yeah but would that room then become a different type that needs editing/maintaining independently of the rest? Or could you, for instance, move the bed and the beds in all the other rooms would change position too.

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