Trouble exporting IFC to Revit/AutoCad

[bscavone]

Hey there,

We are currently starting a new project with the intent to share IFC files with our consultants that are using Revit & AutoCad.

We are running VW 2012, we exported to the with the default settings and the resultant IFC was sent to the engineer. Unfortunately the engineer reported to us that while importing the IFC Revit kicked back several hundred errors about the "doors not cutting anything".

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Bob Holtzmann]

I can't say much about Revit's IFC import ability.

Perhaps all of the clash detection should be done with Navisworks or something similar. And a BIM Manager should have been agreed on ahead of time, to handle the exported model files.

[djb]

Giving a cad file to a consultant is dangerous. How do you know if they changed something to make their world easier? IFC allows communication between parties via solibre or navisworks. The problem you have is the engineer expects you to give him your cad files so he doesn't have to work so hard.

From my understanding there is no direct translation via IFC from Vectorworks to Revit, I'm sure vectorworks people can answer this. Tell the engineer to buy Vectorworks.

[Guest]

Giving a cad file to a consultant is dangerous.......... Tell the engineer to buy Vectorworks.

A Contradiction (see if you can work it thru)? At least with VWs you can strip out what you want before you are forced to hand everything over (Data, patents, intellectural property,scripts etc)...not so with Revit,the program crashes.Producing and analysing data has become very expensive and generally clents dont want to pay extra.VW gives all consultants a choice and IMO thats one of the main reasons the few Engineer users have remained with VW rather than moving to AC/Revit.

[Barry_Williams]

A couple of years we worked on a project where we exchanged IFC models with the other consultants who were on Revit and there were many issues with the export/import process. We were using VW2009 at the time.

The issues come from VW ability to translate to IFC and also Revit's ability (or lack of) to import IFC. I think that IFC as a means of data exchange is still a few years away from being truly useable.

It is important that objects are drawn as much as possible using the VW tools, such as wall tool, roof face, Floor etc. It is also important to ensure that all objects to be exported have the appropriate IFC data attached. This can be a laborious process but can be made easier by using the custom selection tool.

It is worth downloading the free version of Solibri to check the IFC model before issuing, however we have found that the IFC model that shows up in Solibri isn't necessarily the model that will import into Revit. There were also several random errors from the VW export.

We never really manged to get the process working well but finally managed to export a useable IFC model that contained walls, doors, windows, floors & roofs. We gave up trying to import IFC models from other consultants, the files ended up being so large that VW was unuseable.

[Guest]

As a Designer/Engineer/Builder Ill take a native file format over IFC anyday? The next option is for me to Redraw/Model in VWs and you'll pay for that...I agree with "All objects should be drawn/modelled in VWs",where you can strip down Data(Objects,layers,Classes,WS and Scripts) before exporting/importing VWs files,not so with IFC... I guess thats your bad luck

[Chris D]

This thread is depressing.

It's OK for AutoDesk to go merrily down the proprietary route, because they are big enough to get away with it. Not so for NV Inc.

What hope is there for VW users wishing to move to a BIM workflow? Nobody can import your files, nobody can read your IFC output..and worse still...try getting usable 2D DWG files out of your section viewports to collaborate the old way.

Navisworks is NOT an alternative....the architect is contractually bound in most cases to give the engineer a base file for them to work with. It's not about clash detection, it's about working file collaboration.

Nemetschek need to get big enough to compete, or at least to compel the industry to use open standards. The only way they can do this is to merge VW, AllPlan and ArchiCAD so that they have a large enough common user base to matter.

Sorry to take the thread off topic, but the collaboration problem is symptomatic of the wider problem.

[Guest]

This thread is depressing.

Nemetschek need to get big enough to compete, or at least to compel the industry to use open standards. The only way they can do this is to merge VW, AllPlan and ArchiCAD so that they have a large enough common user base to matter.

IFC gives the Nemetschek user base collaboration amongst themselves (for what little its worth and NO future growth there?).... its outside of that base they need to grow and compete they need to embrace all engineering disciplines (Civil,construction,mechanical,environmental and ENERGY)...your idealistic open standards is a JOKE because there have been a few examples here that have made clients and governments gringe and gasp at the delays, inaccuracies and cost blowouts to the point where future BIM Buildings and infrastructure must now be delivered in a single file format either Revit/Microstation.

[M5d]

This thread is depressing.

Yes it is.

It seems to me, the quality assurance and efficiency of a lossless proprietary software environment across disciplines is not something IFC will be able to match. It's translation verses integration, so I expect it?s always going to be a more complex, inefficient and perilous BIM workflow to the alternative. That?s if IFC becomes a viable workflow at all, it?s not a pathway to consultants currently. Even though Revit supports IFC, IFC hasn?t gained support or even acknowledgment on the ground (in my backwater at least) from the growing RVT universe.

The only way they can do this is to merge VW, AllPlan and ArchiCAD so that they have a large enough common user base to matter.

Nemetschek?s software portfolio looks to have been about acquiring market share not technology. Given they?ve demonised proprietary formats on these boards and elevated IFC into an exclusive dogma, I?d say the chances of them consolidating technology and evolving a comparable suite of proprietary connected applications is very slim.

[VincentCuclair]

Hey there,

We are currently starting a new project with the intent to share IFC files with our consultants that are using Revit & AutoCad.

We are running VW 2012, we exported to the with the default settings and the resultant IFC was sent to the engineer. Unfortunately the engineer reported to us that while importing the IFC Revit kicked back several hundred errors about the "doors not cutting anything".

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Hi Ben!

First of all, what is the intent of sharing through IFC in this case? For clash detection it will do, for drafting etc. I find it better to work with dwgs/dxfs, or a combination.

Second of all, Revit constantly kicks back errors regardless of what you do, so that doesn't neccessarily mean the file is unusable.....however I suspect they are using Navisworks not Revit to import the file, because I don't believe Revit can import anything except for dwgs. If they are using Navisworks....then any other IFC viewer will do as well ie. Solibri/Tekla/etc.

We live in an imperfect world and that means evaluating a certain type of cooperation at the start of a project to find the best solution and the decision should preferably be made by an independant, non AutoDesk user.

There are many ways of working together crossplatform, but that does demand good software knowledge from all parties and that is rarely the case.

You are however blessed with VWs in that it has the widest/best (IMHO) export-import capabilities out there (perhaps excluding Microstation).

Edited January 16, 2012 by Vincent C

[Jeffrey W Ouellette]

Revit will import IFC files, though not without issues. Many of these issues deal with Revit trying to translate the objects in the IFC file into native Revit data structures (e.g. doors in walls).

While they (Autodesk) are working on their IFC compatibility to meet certification requirements, there are still shortcomings with their current (2012) implementations (both export and import).

To help Ben's particular situation (Vectorworks 2012 -> Revit 2012), I have advised them to also share 3D DWG files, as well as the IFC files.

In both cases, the purpose of this exchange is to provide a model reference background for the consultant to begin their work, in their modeling tool. This is the intent of the IFC file exchange methodology, for now. This is not much different then the previous DWG/DXF exchange method. True translation from native format to another native format, with IFC as the exchange medium, will take a great deal of more time and effort, on ALL vendors' parts, building on the current efforts.

While some users in the industry would like to see native-to-native file format-based model exchange, I would counter that is even a larger hurdle than the IFC path we are currently pursuing.

The biggest problem is that every modeling tool has a different means of "making" objects with different core geometry features, parametrics, constraint systems, and attributes. This complicates how to pass information and have it properly reconstituted in a meaningful way in the other system.

At the same time, the process and reason for such exchanges must be examined and scrutinized by the end users. Right now, it appears everyone is adopting an attitude where native-to-native information exchange is absolutely necessary to get their work done. I don't think this expectation has been challenged hard enough by users, to determine its validity.

[Guest]

The blame rests squarely on your (NNA) shoulders...the writings been on the wall for years... you ignored it.

[Guest]

This thread is depressing.

Nemetschek need to get big enough to compete, or at least to compel the industry to use open standards. The only way they can do this is to merge VW, AllPlan and ArchiCAD so that they have a large enough common user base to matter.

...your idealistic open standards is a JOKE because there have been a few examples here that have made clients and governments gringe and gasp at the delays, inaccuracies and cost blowouts to the point where future BIM Buildings and infrastructure must now be delivered in a single file format either Revit/Microstation.

More Bad Luck....About the Crossrail project,"These two initiatives are the first components of an agreement between Crossrail and Bentley to augment the intent of BS1192 -- the British standard for collaborative production of information -- by introducing a project role for a strategic technology partner."Quote

What are the NAG group going to do about this depressing news?Should VW's, Archicad and IFC uses bail out?

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/bentley-partners-with-crossrail-to-provide-collaborative-bim-tools-for-europes-largest-construction-project-2012-02-10