3D Manager features in EAP

[Joe-SA]

Love that Extrude Along Paths can be co-planer. Crowns on gable rakes are simple now when they used to be too much trouble to bother. However, I'm still longing for Julian Carr's 3D manager. Here is a list of things it could do 10 years ago that current EAP's can not do but should.

- multiple objects per extrude

- class settings of each object determine texture allowing for multiple textures in one extrude

- Symbol based profiles allowing for sharing of profiles easily between files through the Resource Browser and the creation of default libraries of common profiles. Also allowing for quick reference to a profile when you want to create another identical EAP that just has a different path.

- and I might still be able to make some progress on the technique here but in 3D manager I would be able to keep the origin of the profile and path common with the overall file. When I had 6 different objects that had different paths but identical profiles I could just draw the new path and cut and paste it into a duplicate of the symbol(3D manager) or now the EAP object and regenerate. The new object would show up exactly where expected. Unique origins for EAP's make this impossible.

- rotation and orientation seemed to be very predictable. I'm constantly flipping and rotating in the EAP to get what I need.

I may have some things to learn still on this but it would be nice if I could match the origin of the path object to the overall drawing origin so I can cut a path drawn in the drawing into the path setting of the EAP and have the object show up in the right place.

I also can't stand the origin of the profile defaulting to the center of the profile object. It would be nice if I could select a locus point in addition to my profile and the EAP would assume I want my origin at the locus point. Never do I control the final location from a center point but some offset distance which means I always have an additional edit for final location both for path location on the drawing and for profile orientation to that path. Neither should be necessary.

Joe

[Dieter @ DWorks]

You forgot a thing:

The EAP should be a volume of some sort, not a group of surfaces!

[AndiACD]

i.d just be happy if EAP actually worked as the name suggests!

All too often it refuses to carry out simple tasks like so many other 3D modelling tools.

But then i've moaned about this before . . . . . . . .

[Kevin McAllister]

A good wish.

I was recently able to create a EAP containing multiple object and was surprised that it worked. This may be a new thing in VW 2012.

Kevin

[grant_PD]

I want to be able to:

-draw the path in a 3d view

-create the working plane that best represents the section of the EAP

-Draw the profile where I want it to be in relation to the path

-See a preview of what the EAP looks like, adjust as necessary

-Click a check box to approve the EAP.

-Edits to the EAP should be handled in the same way.

This is very close to what we are told you can do. With the following irritating differences:

-One's alignment of path to profile does not remain where one puts it.

-Editing either the profile or path takes one into a nebulous world where I can't determine the relationship of one to the other.

YES, it is true that if you are in a group and you "show others" you can see what's going on. BUT, it does not do that when you are in nested groups.

[AndiACD]

Sounds good Kevin.

Now all we need is when you choose to Edit the Plane aspect of the EAP the present Path is indicated with say, "A Dot" marker then you should be able to move the Plane to a position that suits each individuals needs for that particular situation. Or . . . . .

. . . . for want of a simpler explanation . . . . .

FINE TUNING! :crazy:

Crazy, i know . . . .

[Benson Shaw]

I think the first few points describe the existing Fix Profile option in the EAP dialog.

Preview with accept, and edits with visibility would be super, as would locator dot for edit fine tune.

Yes!

-B

[Joe-SA]

I'm not sure what Fix Profile even does. Every time I check it in VW2012 the EAP fails to generate.

I need a Fix Origin toggle as mentioned. The very first point you click to start your path profile defines the 0,0 origin of an independent coordinate system that is unique to only that newly created EAP.

I want the 0,0 origin of my EAP to be exactly the same 0,0 origin of my drawing. I want to be able to snap a 3d path around part of my roof edge and wrap a crown moulding around it in an EAP. Then I want to snap another 3d path around a different section of my roof. Duplicate the first EAP and swap in the new path. My second crown should show up exactly where the original path was created on the model. It won't be. The new EAP will be shifted to the origin of the first click of the first path. You will have to move the second crown into place.

I thought I would be able to create a work around for this but the best I got is always starting your path at the origin and then creating your path. After creating the EAP edit your path to take out the first leg. You can't do this prior to creating the EAP. It just puts the origin at the first remaining point.

A new idea I just thought of would be to create a 'starter' EAP with the correct origin and then always create your EAP's by duplicating this first EAP and cutting and pasting in both your desired path and profile. If you know you have a series of EAP's all with identical profiles...like a series of gutters for instance...this might be big time saver.

Joe

[Benson Shaw]

Hi, Joe - I think the Fix Profile should work for you. I'm a bit long winded, but here is some discussion. Hope this helps.

Default use of the EAP does not require any special placement of profile relative to path - the path and profile do not need to touch. The command just places the center of the profile at the start of the path. Profile orientation may need adjusting after EAP.

I use the Fix Profile option by snapping/dragging my profile to one end of the path. "snapping/dragging" means locating by both xyz and attitude. "xyz" means which point of the profile touches or is offset from the path endpoint. "attitude" means spacial rotation around that xyz point - pitch, lean, rotation, etc. Attitude could be partially controlled by creating or placing the profile on a working plane. When the command runs, the xyz point in the profile will stay attached to the path. Profile will still respond to twists in the path (enable the Lock Profile Plane option to defeat twist).

Some possible reasons for EAP failure:

1. Path is not correctly selected in the EAP dialog (the dialog often conceals the objects, so the highlight is not visible). Trying to run the EAP with path and profile switched often fails.

2. EAP may be mathematically undefined (two or more solutions a point on the new surface). Some intersecting areas may cause failure.

3. Path is NURBS curve and needs to be reversed.

4. Path or profile too complicated or too big - CPU/GPU can't keep up. (try breaking into smaller sections)

5. Lots of others - it's kinda finicky, as you know.

-B

[Joe-SA]

I'm getting your 5 points Benson, but your are losing me with your 3rd paragraph.

Are you starting with a 2d polygon profile with a 2d polygon path for these EAP's with Fix Profile on? It appears you are describing a 3D NURB profile rotated and attached to the end of the path and set perpendicular to the path. 'Staged' if you will where the extrude would begin in the first place before you run the EAP.

How does this fix the origin of the path to the origin of the drawing? Won't the path start point still be offset meaning cutting a path from drawing into EAP still results in a shifted EAP?

Joe

[AndiACD]

I want the 0,0 origin of my EAP to be exactly the same 0,0 origin of my drawing. I want to be able to snap a 3d path around part of my roof edge and wrap a crown moulding around it in an EAP. Then I want to snap another 3d path around a different section of my roof. Duplicate the first EAP and swap in the new path. My second crown should show up exactly where the original path was created on the model. It won't be. The new EAP will be shifted to the origin of the first click of the first path. You will have to move the second crown into place.

I thought I would be able to create a work around for this but the best I got is always starting your path at the origin and then creating your path. After creating the EAP edit your path to take out the first leg. You can't do this prior to creating the EAP. It just puts the origin at the first remaining point.

From what you are saying it would seem that there have been some changes made to the EAP in 2012 as previously even if one created a path along the Y Axis when you attempted to edit it the Path would have been rotated vertically to the Z Axis and planted at 0,0,0, !

Not much use if Editing the shape depends on how it relates to other objects in the drawing!

A new idea I just thought of would be to create a 'starter' EAP with the correct origin and then always create your EAP's by duplicating this first EAP and cutting and pasting in both your desired path and profile. If you know you have a series of EAP's all with identical profiles...like a series of gutters for instance...this might be big time saver.

Could well be a valid idea if drawing the new path you need outside the EAP and Pasting the new Path into a Copy of the EAP doesn't work for you.

[Joe-SA]

No, cutting and pasting the path does not work and I agree, not much use if you need them to relate to the rest of your model.

As stated earlier, the origins inside each EAP will not align with the drawing origin nor each other for that matter and therefor cutting and pasting paths between them will always create objects in an incorrect location.

I'm starting a new project today and I'll give my 'starter' EAP idea a try and let you know.

Joe

[AndiACD]

Good Luck to you, Joe.

[Benson Shaw]

OK, Sorry, Joe - I thought the problem was with the profile not aligning or sticking to the new path. Instead it is that in edit mode, paste-in-place of the new path operates relative to the start point of the first path, rather than to the drawing origin. Correct?

The EAP still can do what you want. Create the new path inside the edit mode:

Dupe the first EAP, Edit Path, switch on pref for Show Other Objects in Edit Modes, delete the original path, snap a new path to other parts of the roof, exit the edit.

This avoids that paste in place problem, and gets the new EAP to the right place in same number of clicks as the wish. Yes?

-B

[Joe-SA]

I'll give this workaround a shot, Benson. It looks promising as well.

Either way I'm left longing for a complete revamping of EAP's.

Joe