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nicovanderschaaf

floor plan & pitched roofs?

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question about generating floor plans....

When I create standard viewports the floor plans of spaces embraced by walls look good. No problem. But I don't know how to display spaces underneath a pitched roofs.

In my case I have a very basic house. One story and a pitched roof. So the first floor embraced by walls (kitchen/living room/etc.), but second floor (bedroom/bathroom/etc.) is embraced by the pitched roof.

Back in the days I drew a horizontal section 1,5 meter above floor level. The section looked on top of a part of the roof and showed the interior spaces underneath it.

I cant figure out how I can display this type of horizontal section when I use walls and roof faces. As soon as I turn the layer on which the roof is drawn on everything underneath it disappears...

Can someone help me?

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I draw with the section on 120cm. You need to draw the walls, then draw the part of the roof until up to the section on the layer of that floor. The rest of the roof goes on the layer above. You will not see a line in hidden line renders where the roof faces meet if you align them correctly. So basically you just use two roof faces instead of one. Grouping the roof faces and the elevation lines and possible skylights is really helpfull to send them to the front together where they belong.

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So if I'm right you have to fake it and draw it manually? Doesn't sound like a really intelligent tool...I would have expected a automated way of getting it done?

Vertical sections are no problem, but horizontal are...?

In my opinion this should be a basic tool.

Thanks for the reply anyway! Maybe someone else has another option?

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I draw with the section on 120cm. You need to draw the walls, then draw the part of the roof until up to the section on the layer of that floor. The rest of the roof goes on the layer above. You will not see a line in hidden line renders where the roof faces meet if you align them correctly. So basically you just use two roof faces instead of one. Grouping the roof faces and the elevation lines and possible skylights is really helpfull to send them to the front together where they belong.

Using this method you can draw the roofface as one and use the split tool (L) to divide the roof in several parts...

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Set a Sheet Layer in Front View.

View>Create Section Viewport

Draw a horizontal line 1.5m above the floor level

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Set a Sheet Layer in Front View.

View>Create Section Viewport

Draw a horizontal line 1.5m above the floor level

That's fine, but then you'll get a 3D top view and not a plan view. You loose your tile or hatch fills of the roof faces and you can't alter it on design layers. It's far more easier to draw the roof face in two peices to work on your floor plans in an easy logical way. and to be able to place all furniture while you see your roof faces.

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I draw with the section on 120cm. You need to draw the walls, then draw the part of the roof until up to the section on the layer of that floor. The rest of the roof goes on the layer above. You will not see a line in hidden line renders where the roof faces meet if you align them correctly. So basically you just use two roof faces instead of one. Grouping the roof faces and the elevation lines and possible skylights is really helpfull to send them to the front together where they belong.

Using this method you can draw the roofface as one and use the split tool (L) to divide the roof in several parts...

As long as they stay roof faces.

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So if I'm right you have to fake it and draw it manually? Doesn't sound like a really intelligent tool...I would have expected a automated way of getting it done?

Intelligence is not Vectorworks' strong point.

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So if I'm right you have to fake it and draw it manually? Doesn't sound like a really intelligent tool...I would have expected a automated way of getting it done?

Vertical sections are no problem, but horizontal are...?

In my opinion this should be a basic tool.

It should! Roofs and Roof elements should be next in line for a proper overhaul! For real parametric BIM the 2D and 3D should be one solution......in this case you need to do one thing for the 3D and another for the 2D.

(I noticed that Revit plans are quite literally a horizontal section with Hiddenline rendering.)

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I totally agree!

I thought the time was right to switch from 2d drawing to 3d modelling, but by missing these basic tools I'm starting to doubt.

Maybe the 3d modelling part is sufficient for drawing preliminary designs. I think the create section viewport on a front view will do then (with additional information in the annotations). I will give it a shot, but hopefully version 2013 will improve on this point. Revit indeed can provide horizontal and vertical sections (even combined) at any level of the model. VW should integrate such functionality as well.

Even though I learn a lot by al the answers provided. Thanks a lot!

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I draw with the section on 120cm. You need to draw the walls, then draw the part of the roof until up to the section on the layer of that floor. The rest of the roof goes on the layer above. You will not see a line in hidden line renders where the roof faces meet if you align them correctly. So basically you just use two roof faces instead of one. Grouping the roof faces and the elevation lines and possible skylights is really helpfull to send them to the front together where they belong.

Using this method you can draw the roofface as one and use the split tool (L) to divide the roof in several parts...

As long as they stay roof faces.

unfortunately they don't...

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I totally agree!

I thought the time was right to switch from 2d drawing to 3d modelling, but by missing these basic tools I'm starting to doubt.

Maybe the 3d modelling part is sufficient for drawing preliminary designs. I think the create section viewport on a front view will do then (with additional information in the annotations). I will give it a shot, but hopefully version 2013 will improve on this point. Revit indeed can provide horizontal and vertical sections (even combined) at any level of the model. VW should integrate such functionality as well.

Even though I learn a lot by al the answers provided. Thanks a lot!

You can do what you ask for, you just have to draw the roof face by drawing two roof faces, one on the floor layer where it begins up until your section height, and one on the layer above. Then you'll have a great plan representation and a solid representation in 3D and sections. I really don't see what's so hard about it.

Edited by DWorks

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I might be misunderstanding your intent here but I do the following:

Create a viewport to the floor plan only including all knee walls and gable walls. Create a second viewport that contains the roof plan. Stack the roof VP beneath the plan VP.

In addition you could take the roof only viewport and add grayed first floor plan to it. Then you can draw a solid polygon stacked between these two viewports as a mask so the second floor plan stays readable but you still see your roof and perimeter first floor walls that surround this plan. Creative use of classes allows you to turn off furniture and cabinets on first floor if you wish. You could even dash the first floor lines and or turn off the interior walls all together to show just the perimeter walls. Whatever you wish.

If the gray layer toggle isn't good enough set the gray tone in the Use Layer Color setting in the design layer and print with this toggle on. Then the surrounding info can be as light or as dark as you want depending on the depth of the gray you choose. Since its in a separate viewport it doesn't mess with your second floor plan at all.

If, however, graying your original first floor plan layer messes up your display elsewhere you can Layer Link (are these still around?) or DLVP to a different layer...call it 1-background or something. Set that layer to a gray Use Layer Color and then reference that to your viewport. Original first floor plan is unchanged.

In the case of a balcony looking down to the first floor this method fails to show the actual horizontal cut through the roof at the second floor level but we would typically be satisfied with the second floor plan, roof plan, and first floor walls all showing and skip the actual horizontal roof cut.

One caution, don't toggle on gray layer AND set Use Layer Color. You actually get a double lightening in the VP. Use one or the other.

Touched on a lot of topics here. Hope its not too confusing.

Joe

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oh, one other thing....

Don't forget the use of viewport cropping. If you have a small second floor over a sprawling first floor you can crop this background viewport just enough to give context to the second floor without showing the entire first floor around it.

Joe

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I might be misunderstanding your intent here but I do the following:

Create a viewport to the floor plan only including all knee walls and gable walls. Create a second viewport that contains the roof plan. Stack the roof VP beneath the plan VP. ......

Why making it so hard? Try this for a floor that's partially or fully under a roof:

* Draw all needed walls.

* Draw the roof faces up to where you would cut them horizontally. So draw the piece of the roof you will see on that floor.

* Then create a new layer.

* Draw on this layer the rest of the walls and roof faces to complete the total volume.

* Now you have a floor plan that shows correctly in 2D and 3D.

The nice thing about this is that you can create a 3D floor plan from it which look really nice.

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Dieter, what happens in your example when you use fit walls to roof? I kind of like Josefs solution here, it seems to me that your solution, Dieter involves drawing the same thing twice!? I will definitely be testing both solutions soon! Thanx for the tips!

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Dieter, what happens in your example when you use fit walls to roof? I kind of like Josefs solution here, it seems to me that your solution, Dieter involves drawing the same thing twice!? I will definitely be testing both solutions soon! Thanx for the tips!

I don't draw things twice, I do draw the roof in parts instead of a whole. And I have never used fit walls to roof because for me, it doesn't work that well. I find it far more easier to manually adjust the walls where needed. And since VW2011 it became a real piece of cake because you have so many good 3D snappoints. Another reason why I never use fit walls to roof is because we never have a single level under the roof. What I mean by that is that the walls just follow the roof for a certain length, and the rest of the wall follows the layer height.

Jozefs solution ssems ok, but it adds a lot of organization to your drawing. I prefer to keep it simple and clean so it's easier to adjust things later.

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The method I describe adds flexibility to how you display the end result in your SLVP's. The modeling process is unchanged and therefor remains 'simple'.

Future edits to roof objects would be more simple having to manipulate one objects instead of two for each face that spans 2 stories.

I am intrigued by the 3d view of the story showing the roof planes beneath the cut, however. Back in about 1995 I was working in DataCAD and they had a Clip Cube feature that allowed you to draw a 3d cube and either display the interior or exterior of the cube. Display feature only...no cuts were made. It would be like adding a Z base and height to our viewport cropping. Wouldn't that be slick?

Joe

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The method I describe adds flexibility to how you display the end result in your SLVP's. The modeling process is unchanged and therefor remains 'simple'.

Future edits to roof objects would be more simple having to manipulate one objects instead of two for each face that spans 2 stories.

I am intrigued by the 3d view of the story showing the roof planes beneath the cut, however. Back in about 1995 I was working in DataCAD and they had a Clip Cube feature that allowed you to draw a 3d cube and either display the interior or exterior of the cube. Display feature only...no cuts were made. It would be like adding a Z base and height to our viewport cropping. Wouldn't that be slick?

Joe

Can you post the file with your method? Because I don't see what your doing.

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All he's doing is placing a cropped SLVP of the attic/top floor on top of the roof SLVP. ie. creating his own workaround for a horizontal section.

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Yes, that's all it is.

My comments about classes and methods of achieving a nice gray tone to the background were just ways to enhance the output further. The base method, however, is quite simple. Put your roof and walls into two separate SLVP's instead of one. Place a masking polygon in between them.

Perhaps with floor slabs a masking polygon isn't even needed anymore. Just turn on the floor slab beneath the upper walls and you get the same effect.

Joe

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So tell me then, how do you draw the walls that are underneath the roof parts you want to see on your floor?

And how do you show the 'height lines' then? We need to draw a line at certain levels to indicate where you have that cretain height. This is for placing furniture, doors, etc...

I don't think it's a good method. I still think it's too much work for a not so good result.

Here are some examples I made with one design layer: (Easy, fast and with no extra organisational work). The second examples even have a 'grayed out' layer for the floors under the current floor.

Edited by DWorks

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You draw the roof on one DL and the walls etc. on another.......

the only hitch with this is that the bottom of the walls on the floor DL must be lower than the bottom of the roof elements for Fit Walls to Roof to function - then again you didn't use that method anyway Dieter :grin:

Edited by Vincent C

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