Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
gentlegiant67

stories 2012

Recommended Posts

I'm trying to get into VW 2012:

The project, I want to design in 3d is a small house with not regular split-levels.

Until now, we were using VW only in 2d and I thought, this small project would be perfect, to start into 3d, but I really don't know, how to solve the problem with the different heights.

Do I have to create a story for every split level? But then, the height of every half-level (the walls for instance) would be linked to the next (half-) level and not to the next ceiling, that is really one story beyond?

And on which of the proposed design layer (from the story-window) do I put my walls? On the slab??

Share this post


Link to post

Yes, create layers for each level, however basically only place objects on them if you want them to be visible on that layer i.e. in many cases you'll have to make walls that span half a story, however this will make it easier to show windows correctly.

Share this post


Link to post

gg67

I would have 4 layers. The lowest would have levels 1 & 2, the next up would have levels 3 & 4, the next layer would have the top floor level and the top layer would have the roof.

Walls - you could start the walls from the bottom slab, but (1) that would mean creating look-alike 2d walls on the upper layers (for printing) and (2) it is difficult to have windows above one another in the same wall.

I would have walls on the layers I have described, and you can adjust the bottom and tops of the walls, and the vertical position of windows and doors, to fit the floors if you want.

Edited by D Wood

Share this post


Link to post

One more thing:

When you're deciding how to set up your walls, you need to consider the texture you intend to apply to the wall or walls. Some textures join seamlessly at vertical and horizontal joints, some don't.

Share this post


Link to post
gg67

I would have 4 layers. The lowest would have levels 1 & 2, the next up would have levels 3 & 4, the next layer would have the top floor level and the top layer would have the roof.

I would have walls on the layers I have described, and you can adjust the bottom and tops of the walls, and the vertical position of windows and doors, to fit the floors if you want.

thanks a lot for your help!

David: would that mean, i give up the stories-business and just create layers, like i used to to, i.e. in VW 2011?

So working with elevation (and layer Wall height), which is ok for the level 1 and then changing the position of Walls and slabs on level 2 manually?

Share this post


Link to post

You can have as many layers as you want when using stories, but you can only have one layer of each type in the story. For example you can only have one slab type layer in each story of the building. This means that you would not be able to have 3 slab layers unless you call them different layout types.

I would probably have one layer for the different slab levels and then use that walls to roof command to fit my walls to the slabs. The fit walls to roof command is used to control the top and the bottom of the walls to fit the walls to 3-D geometry.

I could be wrong, but I think that when you set the top and bottom bounding of walls, you can only set the bounding to go to one layer type. So for example, you can't make the bottom bounding of a wall see 2 different slab levels, so you will have to use fit walls to roof to get a wall to fit to 2 different slabs.

Edited by Jonathan Pickup

Share this post


Link to post

And yet another thing that NV didn't take into account for their storeys setup! We need to bound things to more than one storey up.

NV has a lot of work to do!

On the real questions:

I would go with normal layer setup like you did in VW2011. Create a layer for each floor elevation and bound your walls to the layer height. Don't use fit to roof because you'll have to do it each time you change something. Using a layer for each floor elevation will let you use the improved stair tool between them. and your windows will be on the correct height when inserted, also other things....

Edited by DWorks

Share this post


Link to post

Very useful thread. You can mess around with the trial version of software but until you run a real job through it, or somebody else does (thanks fellas), you don't really test it.

Shall we say the stories feature is in 'beta'...

Share this post


Link to post

I seem to do quite a few houses with split levels / mezanine type arrangements.

In starting the 3d journey, i have tried both of the options above. I have tried separate layers for each floor level - very easy to control wall heights then, and also just adjust the slabs / wall heights in parts. Neither is better than the other.

I just changed one project from separate layers for each level to one layer for levels that are similar to resolve dwg export issues and make it a bit simpler.

When you have a a mezzanine type of arrangement it all becomes very inefficient - you want to be able to just have the one wall run all the way to the roof, but then you only see that on the lower level plan, and not at the upper mezzanine level.

I guess this one of the limitations of vectorworks hybrid 2d/3d environment

Although my pet hate is that if you have to export dwg files of the design layers then you only get the contents of each layer - which becomes annoying as the recipient has to piece it all together

Share this post


Link to post

Another problem that exists with those stories:

What if you want to draw more than one building in a drawing? Like when you have a terrain with multiple houses that arent the same, and haven't the same elevation? I don't think this can be done with the storeys.

Again, those storeys need to be more flexible! Like you need to be able to bound objects to any story you want! But leave the option to just bound to the one above or below.

Share this post


Link to post

This isn't something I would use stories for. If I wanted to create more than one building on the drawing at different levels for the terrain, and I would create a series of files, with one file for each building. Then using workgroup referencing, you could bring these buildings into your terrain.

Share this post


Link to post
This isn't something I would use stories for. If I wanted to create more than one building on the drawing at different levels for the terrain, and I would create a series of files, with one file for each building. Then using workgroup referencing, you could bring these buildings into your terrain.

That's the first thing I would think of too, but sometimes it can be that only a certain floor is different. So actually, I have one building, and for floor 1 for example, I have 3 different layouts. If you want to be able to use storeys, you can't do it!

Another thing that's bugging me is that when you use walls in a symbol, they don't listen to the layer height etc... I think they should, then you could have a certain layout as symbol, and depending on the layer it is set on, the walls will be higher or lower.

Share this post


Link to post

Yes - and I thought I was the only one - We do apartment buildings and the most efficient way to do the apartments is to create symbols for each type - however if for some reason you have different floor heights you have to create a new symbol.

You start to get to the point where the software dictates the building design - not good.

Share this post


Link to post
Another thing that's bugging me is that when you use walls in a symbol, they don't listen to the layer height etc...

Symbols have always caused these sorts of problems. Either they need to be fixed to talk to other objects or or they need to be replaced with another type of grouping.

Share this post


Link to post

I still find stories confusing.

Maybe I am going about it wrong.

It would be great if someone would post how to do this.

Need an example of a 2 story home with a crawl space.

Footing bottom is 18" below ground, 12" deep

Foundation wall is 38" tall so it leaves 32" above ground

First floor is 10" (joists and sheathing) + 1-1/2" for sill plate

1st floor walls are 108"

2nd floor joists same as 1st floor

2nd Floor Ceiling joists are 2x8

Then Roof

My thinking is:

Foundation storey (includes footing and foundation)

1st Floor storey (includes sill plate,floor system and 1st floor walls)

2nd floor storey (includes joists system, walls, ceiling joists, Roof)

I suppose Roof could be its own storey

taoist

Share this post


Link to post

The roof can be a layer type pr 2nd Floor Story. It doesn't need its own story. The elevation of the roof is then fixed relative to the story height.

Share this post


Link to post

Surely the foundations would be part of the ground storey too? If it doesn't have a room that you can walk about in then it's not a storey right?

What I'm having a bit of trouble getting my head around is that when you add a new Storey the "Storey Elevation" dimension seems to be to the stop of structural slab rather than to finished floor level.

Share this post


Link to post

Christian,

I am going to try and do it from the Design Layers side of Storey's and see what happens.

For me, slabs are concrete.

Floors are everything else

We have crawl spaces here for foundations

To me, it is a storey whether living space or not

imho

taoist

Share this post


Link to post

Christiaan, you can edit the Default Story Layers and Level types so that they align to finish floor rather than structural slab.

Share this post


Link to post
We have crawl spaces here for foundations ... To me, it is a storey whether living space or not

That means buildings with one floor would be defined as two storey. Doesn't make an iota of sense. Unless it's a basement it's not a storey, at least as far as the rest of the English speaking world is concerned.

What's the problem with putting the foundations on a ground storey layer?

Share this post


Link to post
Christiaan, you can edit the Default Story Layers and Level types so that they align to finish floor rather than structural slab.

Yeah I think it's the defaults that confused me. As you say it's just a matter of editing the defaults.

Share this post


Link to post

Christiaan,

I guess it is a matter of perspective.

I was not aware that storeys had a minimum height

If it (storey) is on a separate level (above or below a floor / slab) it is a storey.

When building 2 story models you have

Foundation (basement or crawl space) which includes footing

1st floor (ground floor)from sill plate to top of wall

2nd floor from top of 1st floor wall or 2nd floor system to roof

I guess it comes down to, do storeys exist if they are below ground?

In my mind, yes.

I am not arguing here just pointing out how I see things.

taoist

Share this post


Link to post

It's a matter of definition, not perspective. Calling the foundation a storey makes the word storey meaningless.

Storeys aren't defined by their height, they're defined by the fact that they're a level in a building that people can use (and they generally exclude areas that don't have a roof, such as a roof deck).

If it (storey) is on a separate level (above or below a floor / slab) it is a storey.

If we're being forced to use this definition because of a limitation in VW then VW is an arse.

I'm having a look now but surely the foundation level can have a negative value relative to the storey level?

Share this post


Link to post
Don't use fit to roof because you'll have to do it each time you change something.

Yeah but what happens if you have pitched roofs?

As it stands you either bound to the roof elevation, which means the tops of your walls are straight or have to use the Fit Walls to Roof command.

The Top Bound option needs to include the ability to fit to roof geometry.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×