Stories

[mike m oz]

For Architect users the introduction of Stories has made the creation and modifying of building models much easier. Layers are now dynamically linked and building elements like walls, columns and stairs will automatically adjust their height when changes are made to a Storey's height.

[mike m oz]

Design Layer terminology has changed with what was:

- delta Z becoming Layer Wall Height.

- Z becoming Elevation.

When a Design Layer is attached to a Storey its Elevation is determined by that of the Storey. Changes made to a Storey's Elevation will change the Elevation of all Design Layers associated with that Storey.

Walls have also changed with their tops and bottom levels determined by a Top Bounding and a Bottom Bounding layer respectively. Offsets from these bounding layers can be set.

[Christiaan]

This is great stuff. It's good to see NV minimising the level of abstraction in VWA.

[VincentCuclair]

This will make the 2D/3D parametric objects much easier to control at different levels (ie. as it is in ArchiCAD and Revit BUT still keeping the flexibility of Design Layers) very good!

Stories in ArchiCAD and Revit can be very dictating (not a good thing in some cases) now VWs has this functionality but not the limitations, good!

[Christiaan]

Agreed. Minimising the abstraction while keeping the flexibility = power

[VincentCuclair]

I'm sure that when it comes, you'll like NVWs 'Teamwork' solution too Christiaan! Patience let ArchiCAD/Revit meddle with it for a while (Revits solution is frustrating to use IMHO as it is now) and then VWs can pick up when the biggest problems/glitches have been solved........

[Dieter @ DWorks]

I don't see the benefit of these stories.

At first I thought: Great. But after downloading the trial and trying to set our standard to those stories to see how it can benefit us to draw faster, I got the same result as we draw now. Very strange thing.

You can set the level of a story, and than your walls on the story below can folow, but that's just the same as setting the layer height bigger and then your walls will also follow.

Can anyone tell me the big difference or benefit you can get from these? Also because I think this is the only main new thing in the software, the rest is just getting the new things from 2011 right.

[Christiaan]

It's not the same because all other storeys also shift/change relative to the one you edited, while bounded objects like walls, stairs, slabs, roofs, windows and columns dynamically update accordingly.

See last third of this video:

http://download2CF.nemetschek.net/www_movies/2012/new_features/Stories.m4v

[VincentCuclair]

I don't see the benefit of these stories.

The benefit is sure to become more clear in the future once parametric objects have been adjusted to this functionality.

However basically it makes it possible for example to show different representations of the same parametric object on different layers. ie. if you have a window in between stories you can make it show up with dashed/hidden lines on one DL and continuous lines on another, because now the Stories control object elevations and DLs control object representations.......ie. as it is in the stair tool 'bottom floor' and 'top floor' representations.

Edited September 14, 2011 by Vincent C

[Dieter @ DWorks]

It's not the same because all other storeys also shift/change relative to the one you edited, while bounded objects like walls, stairs, slabs, roofs, windows and columns dynamically update accordingly.

See last third of this video:

http://download2CF.nemetschek.net/www_movies/2012/new_features/Stories.m4v

The thing is that you can do that with only design layers. You don't need storeys. What you do have extra is that VW automaticly moves up or down the others when you edit one's elevation, But that's the only thing that you get new.

[Christiaan]

Bounded objects update dynamically in pre-2012? That's news to me. (apart from the old stair tool, sorta)

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Bounded objects update dynamically in pre-2012? That's news to me. (apart from the old stair tool, sorta)

But it's true. When setting up your layers correctly, you can have your walls dynamically updated when changing the heights and elevations of your layers. You did need to calculate all heights and elevations by yourself, but that was the only thing needed. We work this way, and it works beautifull. That's why I don't see the direct benefit of the storeys like they are in v2012. I'm sure the benefit will come in next versions, but now, objects are still placed on normal design layers and storeys are just a grouping of some design layers. So storeys doesn't add actually new kind of things in terms of what is possible. It just reformatted the situation, probably for future versions.

Also the storeys will only become usefull if you actually can place objects on a storey, and not on a design layer. And the wall component should need to be bounded, not the wall itself. You will have more trouble with editing the heights of wall components than with overal heights. With the current system, this was the case and this will still be the case with storeys.

[D Wood]

First they can't spell colour, now it's stories.

Stories is the plural of story.

The plural of storey however is storeys.

[Robert Anderson]

DWorks, you should give stories/ storeys a try. I think you'll find they are significantly more useful than the old Z/delta-Z system.

For one thing, you no longer have to manage heights manually (as you said).

For another, many more objects can be set to automatically get their height (in Vectorworks 2011 and earlier, only walls weould change):

-walls

-columns

-pilasters

-stairs

-escalators

-window walls

Lastly, a Stor(e)y definition can control any number of layers. I'm not sure why you say "the storeys will only become usefull if you actually can place objects on a storey, and not on a design layer." This seems to me to be just a technical distinction.

[Guest]

For Architect users the introduction of Stories has made the creation and modifying of building models much easier. Layers are now dynamically linked and building elements like walls, columns and stairs will automatically adjust their height when changes are made to a Storey's height.

Conveniently... you have specifically left out Floors/Slabs....LOL, Cant find a use for the new timber floor framing tool in Multi Storey Buildings?

[Guest]

Hey Robert good to see your on board putting out fires....But whats happened to the Floor/Beam/Slab Element tool?

Hmmmm.. havent seen timber floor framing used in multi-storey's since the Chicago Fires and FYI we're not likely too...

[Jonathan Pickup]

I really like the new Story (Storey) concept, I think it has a lot of power for controlling building elements.

[Dieter @ DWorks]

DWorks, you should give stories/ storeys a try. I think you'll find they are significantly more useful than the old Z/delta-Z system.

For one thing, you no longer have to manage heights manually (as you said).

For another, many more objects can be set to automatically get their height (in Vectorworks 2011 and earlier, only walls weould change):

-walls

-columns

-pilasters

-stairs

-escalators

-window walls

Lastly, a Stor(e)y definition can control any number of layers. I'm not sure why you say "the storeys will only become usefull if you actually can place objects on a storey, and not on a design layer." This seems to me to be just a technical distinction.

Sure I will give it a try, because I can see the potential of it, but as it is now in v2012, there is no real benefit yet. And it feels uncomplete yet because you can't bound wall component and make non-layer key elevations on storeys, and that's something we really need for having this ok.

[Christiaan]

But it's true. When setting up your layers correctly, you can have your walls dynamically updated when changing the heights and elevations of your layers. You did need to calculate all heights and elevations by yourself, but that was the only thing needed.

"Walls" are not "all bounded objects" though are they. Do your roofs, columns, window walls and stairs, dynamically update pre-2012?

All pre-2012 does is update your wall heights. That's one thing and it doesn't even do it dynamically. As you point out you have to manually calculate it yourself, or tell it manually to fit to a roof, and adjust layers relative to each other as well.

I'm yet to give it a go myself but from the video it appears far more intuitive and powerful than the above rigmarole.

[Dieter @ DWorks]

But it's true. When setting up your layers correctly, you can have your walls dynamically updated when changing the heights and elevations of your layers. You did need to calculate all heights and elevations by yourself, but that was the only thing needed.

"Walls" are not "all bounded objects" though are they. Do your roofs, columns, window walls and stairs, dynamically update pre-2012?

All pre-2012 does is update your wall heights. That's one thing and it doesn't even do it dynamically. As you point out you have to manually calculate it yourself, or tell it manually to fit to a roof, and adjust layers relative to each other as well.

I'm yet to give it a go myself but from the video it appears far more intuitive and powerful than the above rigmarole.

Those other objects could also have been boundend to the layers heights, if nna put it in there. And I tried the storeys in several files and setups, but it just doesn't at the flexibility we need. Like I said, changing the floor package still has so many manual adjustments to is, while it shouldn't have been if the objects where beter done.

And other objects besides walls didn't dynamically updated pre-2012, but they could if they put it in there.

[Christiaan]

That's true but I guess if they'd added all these features directly to Design Layers then it would take away the abstraction that caters to other users of VW that aren't designing buildings. Also you couldn't then associate multiple DLs with a Storey.

Perhaps Robert might be so kind as to give an account of the thinking behind all this and why they didn't just add these capabilities directly to DLs?

[Chris D]

I like the idea of multiple design layers per storey, for separate ceiling, furniture, fire compartmentation etc. What I haven't figured out yet, is whether storeys aid with navigation - can I quickly flick up between storeys. I can't see this functionality (only played for a few hours yet though), as the storeys appear in the Org palette but not in the Nav palette....

[VincentCuclair]

To be able to have different representations for the same parametric objects they need Layers/Stories to be defined by (in ArchiCAD they only have stories and the POs are defined through these, the problem with ArchiCAD is you cannot have several alternatives for one story in the same file (which is often the case when showing different solutions for a client) thus VWs solution with Stories and Layers is far more flexible and usable. However, except for the stair tool the POs need to be developed to make use of this new system. (Revit has a system that is similar to this on the other hand Revit consists of almost solely POs which is fairly dictating (not to mention frustrating) to use.

I think it is a brilliant development of which you will see the real benefits in a version or 2.

[Christiaan]

the problem with ArchiCAD is you cannot have several alternatives for one story in the same file (which is often the case when showing different solutions for a client)

That's gotta be the main reason for having both.

[Robert Anderson]

Chris, with the 2012 release we did not give Stories any special navigation capabilities. What would you like to see in this area? (I think this kind of feature has potential, but exactly what the feature would do is not so obvious to me.)

DWorks, we did consider embedding Story-levels at wall components, but frankly we felt the complexity of this would be overwhelming for most users and would provide little additional benefit. Would you mind providing an example of a wall condition you cannot do with the current system of Stories, wall-height bounding and wall/slab interactions?