Teresa Hull Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 For the first time ever, I'm trying to use the new "Scaling" option for symbols. Everything seems pretty good when scaling symmetrically, but I haven't yet cracked the code on asymmetrical scaling. I have some 3D trees in my drawing that I am trying to get to somewhat represent what the actual trees on the site look like. Mostly, I need to be able to adjust the Z' scale independent from the X' and Y' to give the different trees different looks. I got the 3D tree models by importing 3ds files that I scavenged from the internet. I have mostly stripped out nested symbols, but not completely. So the symbol is organized like this: A. Hybrid Tree Symbol 1. 2D elements group a. polygon of outline of leaves b. circle where trunk meets ground 2. 3D trunk group a. 3D symbol of main part of trunk b. 3D symbol of branch 1 (several instances) c. 3D symbol of branch 2 (several instances) d. 3D symbol of branch 3 (several instances) 3. 3D leaves group a. 3D symbol of leaves cluster containing a dozen simple 3D polygons (many many instances) I can scale the tree with no problem as long as the scaling is symmetrical. If I make the X' and Y' different than the Z', then the Z' appears to effectively become "1" no matter what I enter. It seems the X' and Y' are doing what they should. Perhaps I am "doing this wrong" by asking VW to asymmetrically scale a symbol that has nested symbols ... Or maybe it is something else? Does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with Asymmetrically scaling symbols? Quote Link to comment
grant_PD Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Hi Teresa, I'm not sure if this helps. But I've been unable to scale a symbol if it was hybrid, in the Z plane. Once I've removed the 2d portion, the symbol scales correctly. Quote Link to comment
Dieter @ DWorks Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Perhaps I am "doing this wrong" by asking VW to asymmetrically scale a symbol that has nested symbols ... Or maybe it is something else? You are not doing it wrong. Here is what I found out: When scaling 3D symbols symmetrically, all works fine. When scaling 3D symbols asymmetrically, all doesn't work fine. * All inner objects seems to scale from their own base point, so the composition will be wrong. * If the inner objects are symbols, they will not scale with the symbol. This is all true when the used symbols are set to real and not scale dependent. If the symbols are set to scale dependent, then it works fine, but with the side effect that you can't use another scale in some kind of viewport for that plan because of the scale dependent mode. So I would suggest: Make the symbols scale dependent, decide what scale you will print and always use for that part of the plan, and then change the scale of the symbols so that they are correct. And I should submit a bug about this. Quote Link to comment
Teresa Hull Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 If the symbols are set to scale dependent, then it works fine, but with the side effect that you can't use another scale in some kind of viewport for that plan because of the scale dependent mode. Make the symbols scale dependent, decide what scale you will print and always use for that part of the plan, and then change the scale of the symbols so that they are correct. I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Is there such thing as a "scale dependent" symbol vs a "not scale dependent" symbol? I am not familiar with this concept. What I was trying to do is take a symbol whose bounding box is 10'x10'x20', and scale it to be 10'x10'x10' (for example). I suppose it makes sense that the nested symbols get confused about insertion points, etc. Having never tried this before, I was kind of hoping that it would just WORK ... But it didn't. Quote Link to comment
Teresa Hull Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Hi Teresa, I'm not sure if this helps. But I've been unable to scale a symbol if it was hybrid, in the Z plane. Once I've removed the 2d portion, the symbol scales correctly. Removing the 2D portion of the symbol does not help. Things still get funky. Quote Link to comment
Dieter @ DWorks Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 You can choose this in the preferences of the symbol. It's like hatches, they also can be scale-dependent and scale-undependent. Quote Link to comment
Teresa Hull Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 You can choose this in the preferences of the symbol. It's like hatches, they also can be scale-dependent and scale-undependent. Dworks, You are speaking of the difference between "Page-based" Units and "World-based" Units. That doesn't really do it for me, as it would just scale the symbol symmetrically. Symmetrical scaling I can do. It's the asymmetric scaling that is giving me trouble. Thanks for reminding me about that option though! I always use Page-based, so the reminder about World-based is good. Quote Link to comment
grant_PD Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Did you try going into the symbol and ungrouping all of the nested symbols? Quote Link to comment
Teresa Hull Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Removing all nested symbols does make asymmetric scaling work as expected. For a tree, this isn't the most ideal. It is nice to be able to adjust the component parts (leaves, leaf clusters, etc.) and have that change be reflected everywhere. Quote Link to comment
grant_PD Posted March 16, 2011 Share Posted March 16, 2011 Yes. What you need is a parametric tree. Have you looked at the plant tool at vectordepot? I've not, but it might be what you're looking for. Quote Link to comment
Teresa Hull Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 Grant, I did take a look at some of the plant stuff at VectorDepot. This is the only time I've ever really needed to use trees, and I don't foresee needing to do it often in the future. So I can't justify spending money on any tools or symbols. I just thought it would *work* to scale the symbol. It's funny how I learn more about Vectorworks by figuring out what it CANNOT do, than I do by learning what it CAN do. I think life is just like that. We learn from our failures, not so much from our successes. Quote Link to comment
timmysmith Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Thank you DWorks, I was having problems scaling a nested symbol. Symbols within symbols will not scale correctly, when you try to render the scaled symbol it gets all mashed up. I double clicked my symbol choose 3d edit, then CMD + K 'ed (CMD+ K is convert to group) all the symbols within my larger symbol. It works now and I don't have to remodel the whole object at a different scale which would have cost me about 5 hours. I can now texture my nurbs surfaces inside the symbol by class attributes. Yesterday I was blowing steam out of my ears but now I am grinning like a cheshire! Luvely Jubbly ! Tim Quote Link to comment
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