Jump to content
  • 0
Sign in to follow this  
Vincent C

Stability/Compatibility over Fast Development/Features

Question

For quite a while now (years) I have been trying to convince the people upstairs that stability (and indirectly compatibility) are far more important than fast development and feature richness. It seems that other developers (competitors) are falling for the same trend, I just installed ArchiCAD 14 and am trying to work with version 13 files and it is so SLOW! I hate it when I work faster than my computer/program can keep up!!!!!

See how similar these threads are!:

http://195.144.20.106/viewtopic.php?t=35063&sid=33d6f104b251786f75d17c211f1cc1b6

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=174614

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=149275#Post149275

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=152586#Post152586

Apparently it is more important to have 'cool' features to market than that they actually work properly?!

NV I must STRESS again that stable software is far more valuable than 'flashy' unstable software.

It's a disgrace when Beta versions are released as the 'real' thing.

Do you really think that cars would keep selling if they have the capability to clean your shoes, play videos etc but have problems shifting to 3rd gear every other time or the engine dying once in a while when waiting at a traffic light? Do you really thing people would keep buying that particular make? Hardly

Edited by Vincent C

Share this post


Link to post

Recommended Posts

  • 0

I would agree with this as well. For this reason the move to yearly major releases concerns me. It seems like a good working release will not be the outcome of this method. As soon as 2012 is released, no more development of 2011 will happen, and 2012 will introduce a new set of bugs and quirks, and onward.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Guest Mark Flamer

I vote that NEMV add no new features until the openGL engine is at least 5 times as fast.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Agreed.

DWG export should also be alot more reliable. Surely this sort of thing is imperative.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Come on NVW - how about a Snow Leopard release? 0 new features. It worked for apple.

Just rewrite the whole thing in 64 bit, rip out the legacy code, fix the bugs, make DWG exchange work well, finish the tools that are already in the product, make sure that it can seamlessly open older VW files, and release a stable product that is faster and leaner than the last one. Then, you have a really solid foundation on which to build new BIM-related features.

You can sell it with t-shirts that say NO BLOATWARE.

I guarantee that ALL of your existing users would buy it. I suspect that the bloatware thing would resonate with lots of ACAD & Revit users too.

You guys really need to do something like this if you're going to sustain an annual release cycle. If things continue to develop as they have (focusing on new features rather than stability, compatibility, and performance,) your existing users are going to stop upgrading.

At a minimum, you need to make the transition to new versions effortless. Opening older files should not result in lost objects, sluggish performance, and general instability. There also needs to be an easy way to upgrade workspaces, plug-ins, and user-defined default content. You can't expect everyone to start from scratch every year.

Please NVW - give us a tool that allows us to spend more time working and less time working-around and we'll buy it 'till the cows come home.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I'd happily buy an upgrade that just offered a less buggy more compatible and reliable piece of software.

I've had so many problems with 2011 that have caused loss of productivity and consequently profit that I'm seriously considering not upgrading again for along time. In fact I find I'm exporting to 2008/2009 more often than I'd like, just to be able to export reliable DXF's for laser cutting....to name but one issue.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Every one has cited very real sore points, but Vincent & billtheia have tidied it up quite neatly . . . . . .

VW is really really in need a of a serious "Ground Up Rebuild".

Keeping everything that is still great about it, in what we see and interact with and throwing out all the dead wood still littering the archaic components still under the hood/body that are left over from the earlier releases that seem to be suffocating function of VW's progression and compatibility with contemporary hardware tech, like multiprocessor CPU's to name but one.

Making sure of course that before anything visible IS dropped or changed in the "Face" of the App, first that it's OK with the users . . . . . Us

Edited by AndiACD

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I'm in - no wait, I'm out.

Could't care less about BIM and DWG export - I want more and better modelling tools, better 2D tools, better text tools, parametric arrows, better HDRI control, better texture control, better mapping control, better.. well you get the picture.

Sure stabilty is good. But after the latest release, where all of us unknowingly became beta-testers, I think NNA owes us a treat - like a brand new 3D powerpack - for free - with the release of VW2011 SP3.

But then again - I would rather have an SP4 than a VW2012.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Kaare, as most of your points are related to RW, let's just get VW straightened out first . . . . . .

:/

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Just rewrite the whole thing in 64 bit, rip out the legacy code, fix the bugs, make DWG exchange work well, finish the tools that are already in the product, make sure that it can seamlessly open older VW files, and release a stable product that is faster and leaner than the last one. Then, you have a really solid foundation on which to build new BIM-related features.

Cheer Cheer!

Don't forget the multi thread (processor core)support.

Edited by NTZeek

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
I'm in - no wait, I'm out.

Could't care less about BIM and DWG export - I want more and better modelling tools, better 2D tools, better text tools, parametric arrows, better HDRI control, better texture control, better mapping control, better.. well you get the picture.

What you're asking for are new functions.......exactly what I'm trying to get them to forget for a year or so!?

If you don't care about BIM and DWG export and you need better 3D modeling tools why do you have VWs? There are excellent standalone render apps that do excellent 3D modeling.

What I want is for them to repair, stabilize and improve the BIM, DWG, text, HDRI functions etc etc that are available.

Edited by Vincent C

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Hehe - good point, Vincent - I am probably slowly walking into a dead end. As a Mac-man, there aren't actually that many worthy alternatives to the VW way of thinking and 90% of the time I'm still better off.

So yes, that is what I am asking for.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Oh i don't think it's a dead end, one of VW strengths is 3D modeling, you just posted your wish in the wrong thread :grin:

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Kaare,

I entirely support this. I too could care a less about BIM. Every project I work on requires an entirely different approach.

I often use the architectural tools, but not in ways they were designed for or intended. The power is there under the hood, it just needs to be revealed. Its like the release of Excel a few years ago where they didn't add features, they just made the existing ones easier to find, renamed them so people actually knew they existed and revamped the user experience. The Fit to Roof command is a prime example. I have never drawn a roof, but I use the command to fit things to other things all the time.

I also think that this wish, especially when it comes to modelling tools, is completely appropriate to this thread. When tools fail regularly and have an inconsistent UI, for me that falls under Stability.

Kevin

Edited by Kevin McAllister

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Nicely put Kevin.

With Machine Design having bitten the dust, i too am going to have to get used to using more of the aspects that are there that i haven't felt the need for previously, but the sooner Tools start working without tripping over their own bootlaces, the happier we all will be.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Just to be clear, I want NVW to make good on their promise (for VW Architect) - "a tool that allows me to easily model buildings and then create 2d drawings from them." This might or might not be BIM. I really don't care what you call it.

I want a stair tool that allows me to model almost any stair WITH almost any handrail and/or guardrail and present it in both 2d & 3d. Ideally one that allows me to link the stair to floor layers so that I only model the stair once. I want a tool that doesn't crash, give me useless results, or strange behavior.

I want window and door tools that allow me to correctly model sills/thresholds, create almost any door or window, and link the windows and doors to a schedule.

I want a property line tool that allows me to set units independent of the drawing units.

I'd really like the units to be much more flexible than they are, allowing any dimension like object to have a dimension/unit style applied to it but that might be considered new functionality.

I'd like the drawing labels to all be coordinated and all work the same way (eg. the section bubble for section viewports should look the same as the section bubble in the drawing toolkit.)

I'd like the base and wall cabinet tools to be coordinated so that they have the same options and function the same way. I'd really like them to be more flexible but again, one person's "finish this tool" is another person's "new functionality."

So, I'm not saying dump BIM. I don't care if what you call it. I just want an automated, parametric tool that is fast, stable, and complete.

BTW - I too would take VW2011 SP4 over VW2012 any day. We're on SP2 and we're definitely not there yet. Still seeing strange behaviors. Still struggling with bugs. AND none of the tools are finished.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

The marketplace perception is that BIM is "Virtual Building". That is actually what most 3D users want and that is what NV need to deliver.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

"Building Information Modeling (BIM) is the process of generating and managing building data during its life cycle[1]. Typically it uses three-dimensional, real-time, dynamic building modeling software to increase productivity in building design and construction.[2] The process produces the Building Information Model (also abbreviated BIM), which encompasses building geometry, spatial relationships, geographic information, and quantities and properties of building components." Wikipedia

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=26681&Number=128915#Post128915

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

Whatever BIM is it's uneconomic without the ability to produce all your information from a single quick-to-edit model. We've been banging on about this for years but it's just never become the priority it needs to be unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
Whatever BIM is it's uneconomic without the ability to produce all your information from a single quick-to-edit model. We've been banging on about this for years but it's just never become the priority it needs to be unfortunately.

In other words that too has to be 'fixed' first before adding new capabilities........

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0
In other words that too has to be 'fixed' first before adding new capabilities........

Yes, although this surely entails adding new features. Intelligent server-based teamwork for example... new window tool capabilities... etc.

I sympathise with the argument for optimisation but the only opinion I have on prioritisation is that we need to be able to produce all of our information from a single quick-to-edit model. I don't think NV can take a break from features or optimisation for this to happen.

And I suspect it's all a bit too late in any case.

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I suspect that if they really would take the time to 'rebuild' the program and make it stable (in anticipation of its future expansion and development) and more compatible (with previous versions mainly) that the inclusion of the present shortcomings would show to be a logical and essential part of the rebuild.......I think that most more experienced VWs users will agree with me when I say that it feels like VWs has started 'bursting at the seams'....

I like Andrew's ' tripping over their own bootlaces' quote too :)

Edited by Vincent C

Share this post


Link to post
  • 0

I know it's not just me, but it seems like the release of a new Vw version update every 12-months has also increased the number of bugs / beta-level tools that get shipped in the product release.

And unless you upgrade your Vw every year, you get stuck with an unsupported buggy, beta-level product.

Tim

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Answer this question...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×
×
  • Create New...