Attribute/Tool Palette Sizes

[Andy Fritsch]

I believe the Attribute and Constraint Palettes should match the width of a two-icon wide Tool Palette.

[Chris D]

Better still, the Attributes palette should be merged with the OIP where it belongs, and the Constraints should be in the grey bar below the document window like in AutoCAD.

[AndiACD]

Sorry Chris, i like them as they are(here we are again} floating, i like to be able to move them to were i need them. Mouse Miles!!

Maybe in the future i may grow used to them being stuck, but for now mobile suits me better.

But i would like a resize point like the other palettes have.

Please don't think i'm attacking all your idea Chris, for now i just have a different view on them.

[Chris D]

Please don't think i'm attacking all your idea Chris, for now i just have a different view on them.

All healthy discussion ;-)

Maybe I only come here for the banter...

[Christiaan]

Better still, the Attributes palette should be merged with the OIP where it belongs, and the Constraints should be in the grey bar below the document window like in AutoCAD.

Agree with this, although it doesn't preclude there also being floating palettes.

[Chris D]

Sorry Chris, i like them as they are (here we are again) floating, I like to be able to move them to were I need them.

Here we are again, indeed. This discussion was rather heated last time as I recall...

I'm suggesting putting the line/fill attributes on the OIP because that's where I think they belong....with all the other attributes.

In a big office, where following a class system is a necessity, it doesn't help to have the line/fill attributes on the other side of the screen from the class/layer attributes - they should be together.

Now, granted, you should be able to tear this section of the OIP off, for occasional off-class working, or for those firms who don't need to follow a rigorous class system and tend to manually set line/fill so often that they need the palette handy.

Maybe you could even agree on this?

The problem with the odd little attributes palette we have at the moment is that it's impossible to place it sensibly at the top of the OIP....it doesn't even stretch!

[AndiACD]

Sorry Chris, i like them as they are (here we are again) floating, I like to be able to move them to were I need them.

Here we are again, indeed. This discussion was rather heated last time as I recall...

Not intentionally heated . . . .

Maybe you could even agree on this?

The problem with the odd little attributes palette we have at the moment is that it's impossible to place it sensibly at the top of the OIP....it doesn't even stretch!

It's a Right Royal PItA! Simple fact you can't resize it.

To my dissmay, looks like i could be oblidged to say yes.

If it was turned into "a replacable TearOff" so i can throw it into the middle of the drawing and fiddle as necessary and throw it back again when causing an obstruction.

Could work . . . .

[Christiaan]

Great, then it's just a small leap to a unified full screen window:

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=86310

[AndiACD]

How about this one then Chris?

Working Planes Palette!

Has it been sorted in 2011?

[Chris D]

Great, then it's just a small leap to a unified full screen window:

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=86310

....ducks for cover..

[Chris D]

How about this one then Chris?

Working Planes Palette!

Has it been sorted in 2011?

Dunno mate, never use it.

Actually...I haven't got my head around this new-fangled Layer Plane / Screen Plane thingy yet.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Chris D

[AndiACD]

Something else to look forward to being confused by when the new Mac arrives, then.

[Christiaan]

....ducks for cover..

Then again full screen will be integrated into Mac OS X 10.7 (using the green optimise button at the top of every window), so now NV have no choice. Thanks Steve.

Dunno mate, never use it.

You will when you move to 3D. It's about as essential as the 2D selection tool.

[maarten.]

We had a discussion about this on the Dutch board in 2007.

My suggestion was that VW would have dynamic pallets with tabs in it. Every palette would be a tab and you can take it and drag it in whatever other palette you want (like in Photoshop). That way you can make your own layout.

So you can have for example the Info part of the OIP visible and also the Data and/or Render part at the same time.

The Attribute palette would be resizable like the Tools pallets so that the parts can switch intern (see above image for more info). That way you loose less screen space.

An other thing was about being able to open more then one of the same pallets. That way you can have the Classes and Layers part of the navigation pallet visible.

Same goes for the Tools, when you need the Architect tools and Dims/notes tools at the same time, you can open a second Tools palette, do your thing and when you're done, you can close the second Tools palette.

For those who understand Dutch can always have a read here .

[Chris D]

For those who understand Dutch can always have a read here .

My wife occasionally babbles to herself in Dutch (her family is of Dutch descent), but the only word I ever remember is Fiets (bicycle)...which isn't much use in Vectorworks..

Nice idea for the palettes though.

[Vincent C]

Chris, she babbles about her bicycle, are there not better things to babble about?For example "Er is geen betere man dan mijn man!" at least that's worth something for you ........

It is quite amazing that when we are bound to a floating palette system that it is impossible to resize all palettes! And that it is impossible to save several palette layouts independent of other workspace settings. ie. I have workspace settings for 15", 22" and 24" screens however as soon as a change is made in palettes, shortcuts etc. I have to redo these in all 3 workspace setups...I can tell you I hate doing things more than once if a solution is remotely possible......

[Chris D]

"Er is geen betere man dan mijn man!" at least that's worth something for you ........

I do speak half-decent German, so Dutch isn't too cryptic for me....and I'd agree with your assessment...

With regards to the workspace....I've said before that I agree with Christiaan....I'd like a full-screen integrated workspace instead of floating windows, with dynamic toolbars that actually respond to what you are doing.

Having said that, I recently bought Office 2010 for my wife (PC) and I don't get on with the dynamic ribbon at all!

[Off topic...I use go oo (open office variant) on my home Mac, which has a very old fashioned interface...but I'd encourage Mac users to try as it handles the latest MS file types very well]

[Vincent C]

I'd like a full-screen integrated workspace instead of floating windows, with dynamic toolbars that actually respond to what you are doing.

Agreed, and how about the multi screen/window solution while they're at it.......for starters just being able to have the Top/plan view and one other 3D view at the same time would be great!

[Chris D]

.......for starters just being able to have the Top/plan view and one other 3D view at the same time would be great!

Agreed.

It's like a love-in here today. Where's Petri to put a downer on things?

[Benson Shaw]

Here. I'll throw in a ringer:

I keep imagining the mythical OIP containing all our years of wished for items and features. The image is a massive and complex thing - maybe as large as the drawing window with buttons and pulldowns and flippy triangles everywhere. And I think at first this is not useful because of its size and complexity. You get what you wish for.

But then I think of loading it with ALL the tool sets and All the palettes then assigning an easy key summons. It appears as a semi transparent (adjustable) field. Pulldowns stay open and until I close them and stay at my position in the list until I change it. This big panel completely disappears with the keystroke - I have my drawing as full screen NO palettes visible. Tear off areas allow individual, temporary "always on" palettes and groups. Keys or voice can summon individual palettes or groups (Press or say "Oy vey" for object info) They can rejoin the mothership as desired.

I think the palettes should increase in user configuration - group, scale, locate, color code, opacity. You can ring yours permanently around the drawing with attributes right next to the OIP. Give it a name and a workspace definition and put it on every screen in the office. I can group mine into one or two mega panels and switch 'em on & off. Someone else can configure as present.

Let's not lock in a single system.

-B

[Chris D]

Benson,

I'd also like the OIP to be more graphical, with pictograms for the various parameters....more like ArchiCAD (or to be fair to NemV, more like the Object Settings dialog windows). This of course, would make it even BIGGER.

But all is not lost. There are a number of ways to make the OIP more manageable - customizable sections that you can drag around to ensure the bits you use stay at the top; perhaps even make it work like the Tool Sets palette, which is actually rather good....cramming an awful lot of tools into a palette which is smaller than the OIP.

Edited October 22, 2010 by Chris D

[AndiACD]

Chris, she babbles about her bicycle, are there not better things to babble about?For example "Er is geen betere man dan mijn man!" at least that's worth something for you ........

It is quite amazing that when we are bound to a floating palette system that it is impossible to resize all palettes! And that it is impossible to save several palette layouts independent of other workspace settings. ie. I have workspace settings for 15", 22" and 24" screens however as soon as a change is made in palettes, shortcuts etc. I have to redo these in all 3 workspace setups...I can tell you I hate doing things more than once if a solution is remotely possible......

Yep, that's one of my problems. i've lost the "Basic Tool" palette on my laptop and still haven't been able to recover it.

???

[Vincent C]

Ah now that is a bug I remember from 2009 Andrew! Is it so that nothing happens when you activate the palette from the Window>Palettes.....menu?

I had a work around for that.....let's see if I remember......I think I either went to the workspace editor and temporarily changed a setting in the basic palettes or I selected another default workspace and it somehow appeared again.......

[Pat Stanford]

To recover a palette that is off the screen, try setting the resolution of your monitor to something lower. That should bring all the palettes back to the screen. Then you can reset to your preferred resolution.

[Pat Stanford]

But then I think of loading it with ALL the tool sets and All the palettes then assigning an easy key summons. It appears as a semi transparent (adjustable) field. Pulldowns stay open and until I close them and stay at my position in the list until I change it. This big panel completely disappears with the keystroke - I have my drawing as full screen NO palettes visible. Tear off areas allow individual, temporary "always on" palettes and groups. Keys or voice can summon individual palettes or groups (Press or say "Oy vey" for object info) They can rejoin the mothership as desired.

Benson,

That might work for someone who knows the program, but I can't imaging a worse arrangement for people coming in new to the program. Having trained hundreds of people on VW, most of them can hardly find the things that are directly in front of them. If you have most of them hidden, they will never find them.

Right now, most of us (and I include myself) don't use the full capability of VW. Or even the full capability of the parts of VW that would be useful to each of us.

The UI of VW needs to be improved, but it needs to stick close to the standards that users are familiar with, not be some out there new thing to add more confusion.

Pat

The above message way brought to you courtesy of my own personal opinion and biases. It in no way reflects the position of NV (unless it does) or as my role as a moderator. ;-)

[maarten.]

The UI of VW needs to be improved, but it needs to stick close to the standards that users are familiar with, not be some out there new thing to add more confusion.

That goes for most of the wishes. You'll always have people who like it and want to use it and others who want to keep it to the old.

It's never good to make something completely new and trow away the old things. But this shouldn't stop them from changing the UI in my opinion.

Why not have a preference where you can choose to use the "Classic VW interface" or the "New VW interface". That way you wouldn't hurt the "normal" users (which are the majority) but you'll give the advanced users the chance to rebuild their whole interface to fill in their needs.