Company Representative

[Jershaun]

One of the main things I miss in these forums is a representative from NemV. Other software that I use (Thea, VrayforC4D, Octane, etc.) all have the software developer themselves or an official company representative giving/posting official answers sometimes even giving a roadmap.

Katie was doing a good job and she was a good "go-betweener" where I felt my wishes were being listened to and I could imagine her taking my suggestions to the engineers.

Nowadays, I feel it falling on deaf ears.

Just my 2c.

[Bryan G.]

I second that.

Not that the user moderators are not informative but getting direct answers from VW, how nice would that be.

[Thom]

Got to agree. Heck I bet we will not even get someone from VW to chime in here. Cannot get one here to answer when we asked already.

Right Bryan?

Edited October 19, 2010 by Thom

[Bryan G.]

I here ya!

[AndiACD]

This may come as a devestating surprise to you gentlemen, but, i whole heartedly AGREE.

A VW "Route Map" would be a wonderful addition to interaction from the very Knowledgeable Moderators who supply ample solutions to many situations.

But knowing where we're going would be nice too . . . . enter stage right NV rep.

So, i 4th the request!

P.S. Thanx Shaun for putting these thoughts into words.

Edited October 20, 2010 by AndiACD

[td4stage]

5th!

[Bruce Kieffer]

I'm in!

[VincentCuclair]

Me too!

[J Lucas]

Count me in on this!

I remember Katie, she was great: very engaged in helping resolve issues. She personally helped me several times. Currently it seems like the official NVW tech reps only get involved when an issue concerns one of their pet topics.

Edited October 21, 2010 by J Lucas

[Bryan G.]

For clarification, I do know that these boards are watched and closely at that. As for VW responding, I believe they would like to see the boards as a self/user help system. They do occasionally respond on the boards.

What I and I believe others are asking for is not free online training, but direct dialog between VW and its users to not only resolve issues users have(a quick push in the right direction, NOT TRAINING) but have a tighter user/developer relationship. This will hopefully help VW become a better application.

Many of us feel that new releases seem early and buggy and when we find a problem or concern we bring it forward for improvement. An open dialog (or I should say more regular dialog) will help us feel better about the software but most likely aid VW in correcting the issues.

I may be wrong here but is that what you all are wanting?

[Kaare Baekgaard]

I liked Katie - she even had a sense of humor.

In my latest contact with tech support I got a clean brushoff. Not cool.

So I'm in too.

[J Lucas]

I agree with Bryan G.'s clarification.

[Ozzie]

Me too

What about an area on this board where users can post how to movies for others to view

Pretty sure some would contribute to that

[Stan Rostas]

NV attempts to stay lean so they can develop the program while keeping our cost down compared to other offerings. Beta testers do not even have a road map as to where NV is heading from year to year. NV has a road map but depending on comments from this Community Board and from the Beta testing group that road map could change year over year with only certain major themes carrying forward. Most recently as one can tell from the last two releases was that NV is actively changing and improving the 3d working environment.

That being said, other areas will get attention as the time goes on. Here are some we and others feel need attention:

Teamwork and Publishing: We need a improved functioning protocol.

Graphic Attributes: We need a system that defines the appearance of objects in 2D, 3D and in section.

Annotation Improvements. Automatic document coordination, easier to use Notes Database, etc.

Do not mean to hi jack this issue, but what are other broad needs this community forum would like to see addressed.

[Jershaun]

NV attempts to stay lean so they can develop the program while keeping our cost down compared to other offerings.

This shouldn't be a factor. If you look at Octane (Refractive Software), they're only a fraction of the size of NemV but the main (founding) programmer is continuously on the forum attending to technical issues.

Anyway this is just a wish.

[Stan Rostas]

Nowadays, I feel it falling on deaf ears.

Just my 2c. snip

This shouldn't be a factor. If you look at Octane (Refractive Software), they're only a fraction of the size

Anyway this is just a wish.

And thus there is the issue, the engineer responsible for having dialog on this Community board would have no time for program engineering based upon the size of the NV user base and the issues they present.

The company you reference is very similar to C4d barely 4 Programmers who write that rendering and modeling software. NV and Vectorworks along with all the other BIM/CAD software seem to have many more programing engineers, not sure why.

Most of the moderators on this list are giving you better answers than the engineers could since they are speaking from real world working knowledge.

Many of the program engineers are seeing the commentary and suggestions on this Community Forum and factor them into the road map. They still may not implement what some desire.

[AndiACD]

And thus there is the issue, the engineer responsible for having dialog on this Community board would have no time for program engineering based upon the size of the NV user base and the issues they present.

The company you reference is very similar to C4d barely 4 Programmers who write that rendering and modeling software. NV and Vectorworks along with all the other BIM/CAD software seem to have many more programing engineers, not sure why.

Most of the moderators on this list are giving you better answers than the engineers could since they are speaking from real world working knowledge.

Many of the program engineers are seeing the commentary and suggestions on this Community Forum and factor them into the road map. They still may not implement what some desire.

Stan,

i don't think anyone is asking top of the ladder programers to participate constantly on matters that any of us, as forum subscribers, could answer.

What IS required is a better "User" "Company" relationship.

Many times "Q"s are placed on hardware tech compliance ie. multi core processors and the replies, if any, are vague, if not, flowery wild goose chases. We all know an effort is being made to improve VW, and no one is denying that, but it would be nice if relevant honest info was immediately placed in direct reply to a request and i'm not talking about importing 2D images(lots of users would be happy to help solve simple tasks like these). A public relations officer somewhere must be able to fulfill this task, with concise open answers, surely. Moderators(many of whom are just like you and me) are not given the freedom of supplying Route Map info.

When is the next update to the stair tool coming, when will i be able to edit a filleted or chamfered model without 1st "Un-grouping" it and having to re do all the Fillets and Chamfers after the edit, without a "Can't be done" as a reply. i know improvements have been made, but it wounldn't hurt to tell us, "It's being looked into", from the "Top".

"We are experiencing difficulties solving this problem" would be much more acceptable and honest than "Nothing". Every one of we Users will experience difficulties in solving a problem every day and which is the best way to approach or attack it, we are human.

So is the staff at NNA/NV. Stop trying to hide it.

Talk to us!

i do not wish to offend anyone, for any reason, just try to understand the frustration this causes.

Andrew

[Pat Stanford]

OK, I am removing my moderators hat. What I am about to say is strictly from my experience and opinion.

I am currently on at least three mail lists/forums that are having the same type of discussion that "company X does not talk/listen to the users."

Would it be nice to know more. Yes.

Do we need to know more? No.

Software is a hard thing to do right. If a company announces their plans/schedules and then misses them they are raked over the coals. If they don't communicate they are raked over the coals.

A software company used tools by third parties. Things they might like to include may by limited by what the third party offers. What they can do can be limited by the number or people or the capabilities of the people. Sometimes if you start off with a wrong approach, the only way to fix it is to scrap everything and start over. It is nearly impossible to guarantee when any specific feature will be able to be added. Many things in a complicated piece of software like VW depend on other things. Until those things are fixed/added the seemingly simple changes often can't be done.

So why don't we need to know the plan? Because it can't be guaranteed. With software you need to evaluate what is currently available and choose what you will use and how you use it based on what is available NOW. Does it work for you? If not, see if something else works better. If NV says a feature will be available in two years that you need today, are you going to wait? Probably not, you need to get something that works. So why bother asking. Either VW does what you need (maybe not what you would like, and so you should enter wishes for what you would like to see) or it does not and you need to look for other software. Are you going to wait 5% of your work life for some feature you need now?

There have been too many companies that announced scheduled and missed them (Including Diehl Graphsoft) and then paid the price in lost loyalty and bad press. It is easier (and better for the stockholders) for them to no pre-announce schedules or features.

HV has announced they are on a yearly release schedule. That means that any major feature that is not in VW2011 will not be available until at least September of 2011 and in VW2012. It may be longer.

I want to buy a car, but they won't tell me what the specs are going to be for the 2013 model when I might actually buy it. Should I complain on their forum about their lack of communication about a future product? What about a new TV? or a Microwave? No one expects information about unreleased products except for software.

Any by the way. This same sense of entitlement about the future of the software applied to almost every package out there. They all operate in the same fashion with no to minimal forward looking statements. The exception is the very small (1-person) shops that are often very responsive. But this is usually because the package is much smaller and they fully understand what they are capable of.

So I recommend that you (this is a general you, not directed at anyone specific on this thread) think about the implications of what you are asking for and if it is reasonable in respect to the actual business environment that NV (and others) live in.

In my opinion it is a waste of time and bits to complain about needing a "path forward" because you are never going to get it. It just adds negativity to the list that is based on unrealistic expectations.

Pat Stanford

Coviana, Inc.

The PodCAD Podcast (hopefully to be restarted soon)

[gScott]

pat

that sounds very apple-like;

trust us, we know better,

don't ask any questions,

you'll only be disappointed...

what i think people want to

know is something like:

do they actually have a plan?

are they just playing catch-up

and adding flashy features for

the next release adverts?

do they have any intention of ever

fixing integral problems, or are

they just stringing people along

in the hope that they'll keep

upgrading in the hope that

things will work next time?

for instance; the stair tool.

is it "we're trying to make it work better"

or "live with it, that's as good as we can get it"?

when you base your career on a piece

of software it's difficult + expensive

to vote with your feet.

but enough indifference + non-performance

from the manufacturer will do it...

[AndiACD]

Pat, i've always had a great deal of respect for you and your views and accept there's a heavyweight behind all the solutions offered to everyones problems. Experience does that for ya. Heck, you've certainly cleared up plenty of my dead ends, even when it wasn't me asking for help.

Honesty. Really covers a big patch. Any one that is unlikely to upgrade because NV can't give a tool improvement on time is probably not going to stick around anyway. Of all users likely to jump ship, i should have thrown VW out of the window years ago. i can't remember the last time Machine Design actually received any form of improvement. Now, dumb as i am, i insisted on upgrading to a non existant module. Machine Design is no longer listed, and that's the biggest kick in the b@11$ NNA/NV/VAN or whatever they intend to call themselves next year could could give a client/user/customer. But here i am, still hoping they will make my devotion to their product worth the wait.

If they intend to rebuild, it would be nice to know. To keep on patching and repairing a rusty old boat whilst it is still in the water is a totally lost cause. Yes, you can make it look nice, and you can even make it perform a bit better, but it's always going to be be like a pair of old false teeth that are kept washed and brushed up. OK, but not the real McCoy. Better job would be done in dry dock but the best results come from a clean sheet. Start again. Same GUI so we can still recognise it, but everything we don't see works to perfection because there are no old boot laces and duck tape holding it together anymore.

i know it a big job, but it's got to be easier than carrying on, on a wing and a prayer. Telling us what's going on is much more reassuring than silence.

[mike m oz]

Andy Whilst there is no longer a Mechanical version in Vw 2011 all of the capabilities that were in that module still exist in Vw in each of the Industry 2011 series modules. ie. Designer, Architect, Landmark and Spotlight.

Also the 3D modelling capabilities of Vectorworks are constantly being improved. Over the last couple of versions these improvements have included:

- The provision of more robust and reliable modelling through the switch to the Parasolids modelling kernel.

- Substantial improvements to the Protrusion Cutout tool and its rebadging as the Push-Pull tool to more accurately indicate what it now does.

- Making the setting of working planes simple and easy.

- The implementation of Planar 2D objects including text and dimensions on any working plane.

- The introduction of Design Layer Viewports and Section Viewports.

Modelling in Vw 2011 is better and easier than it was in Vw 2009 because of those improvements and I'm confident that the incremental improvement process we have seen over the last few versions will continue.

I'm also sure that NV are aware of the desire expressed here in the forums for chamfers and fillets to be made feature based so they can be edited at any time and I'm confident that it will happen.

[VincentCuclair]

Seems to me like sound reasoning Pat, however.....

Either VW does what you need (maybe not what you would like, and so you should enter wishes for what you would like to see) or it does not and you need to look for other software.

I for one spend 'too' much time (to justify to my employers at least) on this forum as is, and we (I) like to know that the time laid down on suggestions, bug submits etc are not a waste of our(my) otherwise limited time.

I think what most of us wonder from time to time is how much time/energy to invest on certain issues and if we are barking up the right tree at all? Some feed back from NVW on wish list issues, bug submits etc gives us an impression on how important issues are and how much we should be engaged in trying to improve or change things.

If certain issues have a very low priority it is better for us to spend time on finding efficient work arounds than spending hours on the forum groaning.....

Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed by the influence we on this forum (seem to) have on both NVW and each other, however posting wishes and bugs often leave a feeling of 'I wonder if that ends up at the bottom of the pile?'

Perhaps a list and scale of importance can be introduced for both the wish list and bug submits. (Just having a list of submitted wishes and bugs available would be great) probably not something NVW want to vent though, went it comes to the latter!? At least it would stimulate everyone to support, enhance or reject ideas in the list and also give an indication of how others want the product to develop. All NVW need to do is place these items in the order of priority they see fit and we can figure out ourselves what the future will/might bring.

[Bryan G.]

I just read a post by Kaare on the general Discussion board, he had a problem and in his words "got the brushoff" he was then answered by Robert Anderson of VW and BiplapNNA. They told him (well you can read it).

I do not know about others but this is what I am looking for in feedback from VW.

Thanks VW, good job!

[AndiACD]

Mike, i am aware of the positive side to the "Current" already included improvements and despite appearing very single minded about my view on the actual condition and abilities of VW i DO understand that VW is making steady progress towards a much better product, i'm still waiting for my new Mac to benefit from the improvements that have to date arrived.

My dissappointment is in the reluctance to follow the lead companies that produce Quark and AutoCAD who both recently started from scratch with their products to revitalise them. Hell, AutoCAD got the "Non Ported" treatment just for the Apple Mac OS! All New rebuild! How good it'll be only time will tell, but i can't see me ditching VW for AC just yet as it would have to be VERY good to drag me that far from VW, but "ya neva know!"

i feel they'd get a lot more done a lot quicker if they admitted to us and themselves that all the hard work put into keeping VW afloat in it's current state would be better spent starting again, or at least telling us they have no intention of doing so or that that ball is already in play with a dedicated team. i know it's not going to happen over night but let us in on the secret.

Vincent, me too! As you can see.

Bryan, could you post the link? For the same reasons . . . . .

Thanx guys for putting up with my moans,

Andrew

[J Lucas]

A tech rep told me a few months ago that they are in the process of rebuilding VW to run on 64 bit. I don't know if this means a "complete rebuild" of the program. He said the transition in the next few years would be rough but eventually worth it. (I am paraphrasing here.)

[Jershaun]

A little off-topic but to add to what AndiACD said, VW seems to get all these new features but when using vw, I can feel something just isn't right in the software. I can't place my finger on it but something deep within the software is just bogging it down.

If you download demo software from other vendors, you can see there's a difference. Although they don't have the features and the "prettiness" of vw, their software looks and feels smoother and effortless.

eg. is the navigation in vw. It's jerky and blothcy. It can't handle live view rotations. It has to redraw everytime when in hidden line render and other render modes.

another eg. it doesn't like 3d solids imported from other software and sometimes crashes. Moving around in VW (2D and 3D) seems to slow down drastically when there are imported generic solids.

All of this gives me a feeling that vw is really a rusty old boat held together by tape. It also feels like they're trying to put a Ferrari engine in a VW Beetle and any moment the wheels are going to fall off the Beetle.

We need an official answer telling me I'm talking nonsense or they agree and they'll see what they can do. Something like that.