VW2011 Wall Joins - still poor

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Dieter,

Thanks for your wall joining tips and the time you took to illustrate them!! I read your earlier post and tried to do it but could not figure it out. I understood it when I followed your graphic instructions. Helped me resolve a three-way wall connection very neatly.

When you said you use "columns" to resolve other more difficult wall intersections did you mean "pillars"?

I mean columns. I use a dutch version of the software and the column is created by selecting your base shape, then go to the architect menu, and there you can choose column. That's the one you need to use. There is another column like tool wich you can use from the tool pallete, but that's not it. The reason for using the column from the menu bar is because these will render like walls. So when a column and a wall meet, there will be no line in hidden line renders.

Another tip: You can also use the wall join tool to join walls to columns. Keep in mind that this can undo the edge visibility of the base shape of your column.

EDIT: I just see in the trial version of VW2011 I downloaded that the menu is called Pillar and the tool is called Column. So it's the pillar you need to use. In our translated version, they are called the same. Strange, but Pillar and Column for me are just the same. It's a vertical structural element.

Edited October 2, 2010 by DWorks

[Christiaan]

To be flexible, the components should be totaly independant, but act as a group for object insertions.

Agreed. But, at the risk of sounding like a twat, this is not flexibility. This is power. An important distinction when discussing usability.

Clarification: We don't need some infinitely flexible wall join tool that takes more effort to join walls. We need a more powerful wall join tool that takes less effort.

Edited October 2, 2010 by Christiaan

[maarten.]

Maarten, could you post the VW file please. I believe what you are saying is that you can make the wall "look" like the correct arrangement, but they are not actually component joins, and therefore not robust during adjacent edits...like the next junction 5 metres away...

See attached file. (i've managed to get the insulation correct but now the (outside) masonry doesn't connect propperly)

Dieter's workaround is almost the same as mine but looks less complicated then mine... (and he did it in way less steps then my method )

And indeed, by moving the wall to the back and to the front and connecting a lot of components, you'll get this result.

We've tried to get the walls joins to work over the years, but the danger of a junction going wrong and being issued on a drawing is too high, so we use wall patches, which are static and safe.

Same here in VW12, but in VW2008 it seemed that it worked much better and the chances things went wrong afterwards became smaller, so we didn't need to use patches anymore that often. (but sometimes it was just faster to draw a patch then to make such a connection).

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Dieter's workaround is almost the same as mine but looks less complicated then mine... (and he did it in way less steps then my method )

And indeed, by moving the wall to the back and to the front and connecting a lot of components, you'll get this result.

You don't have to move walls to the back or the front with the method I described. I had the problem very long time ago where the solution was to move the wall to the front or the back, but I have never encountered that the last couple of years. The only thing that can depend on moving the wall to the front or the back is the end cap, but when you use component end caps (from VW2010), this is also over.

[maarten.]

Good to hear cause that was one of painful side-effects of that method. I'll keep your method in mind next time i need to draw one!

[Chris D]

OK, I'm away from my computer so I can't verify that these junctions are robust and repeatable, but let's say the greatest brains of the Techforum have rose to the challenge I set. I still don't believe that the VW wall join tool is anything other than "poor". I consider myself proficient in CAD, having used AutoCAD, Revit and ArchiCAD as well as VW over the last 20 years (7 years on Vectorworks now), but VW wall joins defeat me, along with the rest of my colleagues.

We need component joins that aren't limited to Walls that are pre-joined or limited in number. We should be able to have 5 walls join at one point, at any angle, with any number of components, and we should be able to join any component to any other, robustly and reliably.

[StaticDOS]

Well thats pretty disappointing, was hoping that they would sort this problem for VW2011, guess they decided that a revamped wall tool wouldnt sell as many copies as a revamped RW tool.

[billtheia]

guess they decided that a revamped wall tool wouldnt sell as many copies as a revamped RW tool.

EXACTLY.

[Dieter @ DWorks]

Did noone read my post? This is perfectly doable! You only have to know how!

I also had many problems with wall connections, but I found a solution two years ago, and it's so simple to do it. But you need to think it through at first and know how to join in order.

I'll post a pic on how to do it.

Windows Live SkyDrive

And there are so many other situations where this comes in handy. Sometimes, you have an L-join and a T-join on it. You will get a line in hidden line render mode at this join where you don't want it. The solution is using the same trick to get rid of it.

Just want to tell that you can't connect them if the two horizontal walls are a bit in each other, then you'll have to use pillars. What a shame... And I had a lot of them today!

Edited October 5, 2010 by DWorks

[Assemblage]

Thanks for the detailed post DWorks, we are using your method a lot already.