Jump to content

Enhanced Push-Pull capability


Recommended Posts

Vectorworks users no longer need to use Sketchup for quick simple modelling as it can all be done directly in Vw.

The enhanced 3D capabilities provided by the improved Push-Pull tool and the ability to draw on any working plane make that type of modelling a breeze. Add in the other 2D and 3D capabilities of Vectorworks and you are well ahead in capability terms.

If you haven't done so already take the time to view the movies showing what can be done:

http://www.nemetschek.net/2011/new_features.php

http://www.youtube.com/user/archoncad

Link to comment

Vectorworks has improved however the rate of development hasn't been at a blazing speed. From the first implementation of the Parasolid Engine (vw2009) to now (vw2011), the Parasolid Engine just doesn't feel right. There's something about how NemV has incorporated it into VW that doesn't quite fit. It feels like someone forcing a cube through a round hole.

After 3 years of work, I expected to see modeling like this:

http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/demos.shtml

with attention to "Assembly Design with Imported Parts" and "Features Without Order Regeneration" but basically I expected modelling tools in all of those videos.

Maybe what isn't right is the wireframe modeling compared to Solid Edge's realtime OpenGL modeling. Or maybe it's the "Axis Handles". Or maybe it's fluidness of the whole modeling like moving a part of the model and the model updates live including fillets, etc. Or maybe it's the "3D Driven Dimensions".

I don't know but something just doesn't feel right.

Will NemV ever get it right? Will they ever get the Parasolid Engine to the standard of Solid Edge? Will the development ever be fast enough to catch up or will they always be playing the catch up game.

I don't know.

Link to comment

Sean, the interface and capabilities you want are not necessarily what the rest of the users want. If you need those Solid Edge capabilities then that is the program you should be using.

Personally I think NV do a pretty good job in getting the balance right for the many and varied users. The trend over the last three versions shows that they are listening and are making Vw better. Many have asked for SketchUP like modelling ease and Vw 2011 delivers that.

Link to comment

Mike,

The point I was trying to make was Siemens implementation of the Parasolid Engine is far better than NemV's implementation of the same Parasolid Engine. Siemens have done a more sophisticated and comprehensive job than NemV therefore Solid Edge looks much more polished whereas Vectorworks seems un-finished and lacking.

Also I think vw2011 is a far cry from SketchUp. Just because vw2011 has a push/pull tool doesn't mean it's as good as SketchUp. SketchUp also looks like a more sophisticated and polished product than vw2011.

But hey, don't get me wrong, vw2011 has improved.

Just my 2c.

Link to comment
Sean, the interface and capabilities you want are not necessarily what the rest of the users want.

I'm afraid I partly have to disagree with you their Mike, the way SketchUp lets you work in 3D is VERY good, especially the speed and clarity with which the model can be rotated, zoomed and panned, that is without a doubt something NVW MUST strive to achieve, at the moment the design process speed is hampered by (a certain) lack of screen updates and response times when navigating a model. The added possibility of working in perspective and shaded views is also sure to help many a designer.

I guess the solution is partly related to what Shaun states above, and partly in limitations in present hardware.

Otherwise I very much like the way working in 3D is developing in VW.

Link to comment

The point I was trying to make was Siemens implementation of the Parasolid Engine is far better than NemV's implementation of the same Parasolid Engine. Siemens have done a more sophisticated and comprehensive job than NemV

My desires are much like yours Shaun, but I doubt that VW will ever "catch up" with programs like Solid Edge in the way that you want.

VW is fundamentally intended for architecture (with the landmark and spotlight as alternative add-ons).

The programming resources devoted to the sort of "engineering" modelling capabilities you want are probably always going to come second to the capabilities for the major VW markets of Building, Landscape and Entertainment.

Personally I would like to see VW become more like SpaceClaim and less like Revit/ Archicad but I don't have any expectation that this will ever happen.

I would say that NV have defined their markets and that's where their focus will stay for the forseeable future.

Link to comment

Personally I would like to see VW become more like SpaceClaim and less like Revit/ Archicad but I don't have any expectation that this will ever happen.

Personally I would like to see them continue taking the middle road. I hope they keep on finding the ingenuity in combining the best of both worlds and hope they find the resources to keep up (to a degree) with the others......i think the new slab tool and push/pull tool prove they are trying and are fairly successful at that.

There will ALWAYS be more to wish for in future issues.

Edited by Vincent C
Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

>But hey, don't get me wrong, vw2011 has improved.

Maybe but the progress seems glacially slow.

I can work in 2011 and apart from the new bugs, it's just like 2010. I can't find the killer features in 3D and still have to pay outside contractors to use Siemens stuff to do what I would like to be able to do myself.

I'm also bewildered at how many bugs are not fixed? such as filleting and Compose. Compose ought to be great, but without a "fuzzy" input to join things which are not quite touching, it's almost useless. Chainmaker showed the way, but is broken in 2011.

NNA are not alone. Most software these days seems to advance in terms of icons and packaging but not program content and functionality. Just as long as we keep upgrading.

D

Link to comment

Received a price today over here in oz to upgrade from VW LMRW 2010 to VW LMRW 2011

Every year I cannot believe how cheap it is

I know the USA has / is going through a tough time, so too the UK and Europe

Here I think we are booming but still think VW is too cheap

I agree with DMcD

I'm also bewildered at how many bugs are not fixed

There are still bugs in 2010

I would for a better product pay more money

Link to comment

I said exactly that to Robert Anderson and Dr Biplab Sarkar in a meeting here in London (I don't think they'd mind me mentioning this here). That is: please ramp up the testing and development team so as to wipe out the bugs and solidify the product - and increase the product cost if need be. A few will run, most will stay. The labour cost of bugs dwarfs the software cost. User loyalty will deepen.

Link to comment
>But hey, don't get me wrong, vw2011 has improved.

Maybe but the progress seems glacially slow.

I can work in 2011 and apart from the new bugs, it's just like 2010. I can't find the killer features in 3D and still have to pay outside contractors to use Siemens stuff to do what I would like to be able to do myself.

I'm also bewildered at how many bugs are not fixed? such as filleting and Compose. Compose ought to be great, but without a "fuzzy" input to join things which are not quite touching, it's almost useless. Chainmaker showed the way, but is broken in 2011.

NNA are not alone. Most software these days seems to advance in terms of icons and packaging but not program content and functionality. Just as long as we keep upgrading.

D

I agree. Check my post here:

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=146288Post146288

Also, as I said before in this thread, I expected the modelling features to be far more enhanced than it is now. I hope the guy they hired from SolidWorks changes things inside vw and I hope he isn't suppressed by these NemV folks instead.

Link to comment

Singh:

You say in a previous post:

"The development rate at NemV is ridiculously slow."

Can you tell me what version of VectorWorks you use? You don't list that info in your posts?seems to me you were back on v.12, am I wrong? I'm wondering how much knowledge you really have about this program beyond having skimmed the demo 2011 download.

This is important as you continually, in your history of posts, note the shortcomings of VectorWorks. As opposed to what, exactly?

Yes, I have viewed your website and vitae.

Thanks!

Link to comment
[ I expected the modelling features to be far more enhanced than it is now. I hope the guy they hired from SolidWorks changes things inside vw and I hope he isn't suppressed by these NemV folks instead.

Shaun, the development of pure 3D modelling is always going to be a "second" priority for VW as far as I can see, -regardless of what some of us would like. The extinction of Mechanical makes that fairly clear.

From my recollection of the press release at the time, "the guy they hired" was brought in to develop "BIM" functionality. Read; Architecture, read Walls doors and windows etc, read not 3D modelling.

IE, He wasn't brought in to change things, he was brought in to promote NV's primary market segment: Architecture.

VW is never going to be a Modeller "like" Solidworks.

That's my own take on things anyway.

Link to comment

I don't understand why people starting attacking someone in these forums just because they aren't blind fanboys of Vectorworks. :sick: :tired:

@tguy:

I'm originally from South Africa where I worked for a couple of companies that used AutoCAD. I managed to show them their error of their ways and changed them to Vectorworks. There was one company that refused to see the "light" and I therefore quit that job. Very few people can say that they quit their job for Vectorworks. You could say I was one of the fiercest supporters of Vectorworks in SA. I strongly believe in it and VW will always be superior to AutoCAD.

I continually point out the "shortcomings" of vectorworks because I want vectorworks to be the BEST. Period.

I don't continually suck up to, congratulate and bow at the feet of the folks at NemV (like typical fanboys) because I don't want them to get a 'big head' and relax even more with their development. (Oh s**t, now the cat's out the bag. :grin: ) NemV: you guys do a good job but please understand I have to keep pushing you guys. :cool:

Not that it's any of your business but I've been using Vectorworks since 1998 starting with MiniCAD7 all the way to VW2010 with the exception of vw9.

I AM THE BIGGEST SUPPORTER OF VECTORWORKS. Don't hold that against me. ;)

@propstuff:

I understand what you're saying. I'm not saying make vw another Solidworks or another mechanical design program. There's a lot going for vw as is-that's why it's my software of choice.

What I'm saying is everything in any 3D application is modelling. A wall is 3D modelling. A window is 3D modelling. If you break down modelling, it's based on basic shapes eg. a wall is essentially a cube. It's just that Vectorworks has a specific tool that will help with taking that basic shape further. Mechanical software like Solidworks and SpaceClaim also is based on basic shapes. It's just that they have specific tools suited for Mechanical Design to take that basic shape further. When I compare software, I look at how they handle these basic shapes (for their own purpose) and how their workflow is and how they navigate and how they render etc., etc. Architectural modelling is 3D modelling based on basic shapes and these shapes can be manipulated with similar tools from any other 3D modelling application.

Also propstuff, an example to that statment is the 3D fillet tool, once an object is 3D filleted the object is fixed. That's it. The basic shape can't be changed. (Even with vw2011.) The response from any "support guy" is keep your 3D fillets to the end. But design doesn't work like that. Design evolves. SolidWorks can change a basic shape after 3D fillets are applied. Vasu Chavakula will know how to implement this in vw. (Think out of the box and imagine the possibilities, eg. we could apply a 3D fillet to wall intersections or have free form walls-excellent for modelling "safari" type projects where there's no sharp corners.) NemV will either accept this ability of his or tell him to "fall in line" and keep giving the "keep your 3D fillets to the end" story.

Mechanical software are leaps ahead of Architectural software. Seeing Vectorworks uses the same modelling engine as most of them, NemV needs to now use all the modelling tools Mechanical software have for our architectural benefit. We need to start thinking out of the box. NemV can do it, they just need to take a hard look at those mechanical software and say lets use all of that for architecture, now how do we do it?

I want to have no limits when it comes to modelling. I want to be free. :crazy:

Link to comment

Well said Shaun. I agree we have to keep pushing NV to improve VW. I've been using VW as a flat cad program for a few years now, but with the recent downturn in the economy, I chose this slow period to exploit VW to its fullest. I'm on my third full 3D project, and think I'm ready to begin a wish list.

The 3D interface and especially the 3D perspective interface are not as fluid as they should be in this age. Design should be fun, I get excited about seeing my projects in 3D and the software should be just as exciting so we can truly use VW as a tool for design and documentation and presentation. VW has so much going for it, we just want it to be even better, even more intuitive, even easier, perhaps simpler and at the same time more powerful.

Some particularly poor features of VW are the re-rendering of a 3D view just because of simple modifications. This is really not inspiring to my design workflow and hampers my initiative to make iterative revisions. And I'm just talking about simple render modes, hidden line, polygon, and opengl. I want to view a live simply rendered model in perspective while I work on it, and I want to be able to make changes to that model without having to wait to re-render the model. Also Updating sheet layer viewports is also antiquated. There has to be a better way for VW to achieve what we see so many other programs doing. We have faith in VW because it has so much potential, and if they have to drop some legacy features to streamline and improve the product, I'd rather they do that, than fall farther behind.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...