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ar.himanshu

a very crucial question, what VW can't do that ArchiCAD & Revit can do?

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hello friends,

I am going to decide for future investment, I need your help

Please tell me what VW can't do that Archicad & Revit can do?

I have some point to tell you which might help you to guide me...

1. I am from india and there are very very few users of ArchiCAD or VW

2. Revit is still on a beginner's stage here but growing fast, but find it's system very difficult to co-operate with indian working methodology

3. a very strange thing, ArchiCAD is cheaper then VW.

4. I found ArchiCAD is very good in teamwork but other thing is lacking

5. Revit files became very heavy & UI is very numerical type

6. i know littler bit of c4d so the collaboration can be better with VW (but don't consider it)

7. I havn't find such great collaboration with revit & max.

8. there is only dealer of VW in india, which is not in my region/state.

please help me choosing the right software,

ask me any question if you want to know more

Thanks a lot

Edited by ar.himanshu

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Vectorworks can't do, but Archicad and Revit can?

I think the main answer to that is the network file. Archicad & Revit use a central file on a network -- a big file, that serves network users. Vectorworks uses smaller files, that use a workgroup reference system, similar to xrefs in Autocad. Using a large central file on a network may not be the best thing, in my opinion. If it gets damaged, everything is lost. But there are backups for that event, I suppose.

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In New Zealand Revit is growing quickly. I know of a number of people who moved from VW to revit and have not looked back.

The main compliant I hear of revit is the drawing line weight controls are parametric and hard to access / understand. It takes a lot of using it to get to understand the family and template system to get drawings to look good.

VW produces excellent and clear drawings.

If you want to focus on modeling and BIM the research I've read (www.construction-innovation.info) suggest that suggest revit is better. Keep in mind these case studies are now older and VW will have matured as a BIM tool. Maybe NV can post some examples here of projects that have been BIM delivered on VW. VW2011 may be more BIM oriented have not had a chance to play with it yet.

You can not have multiple live views of the model in VW. You have to update the views which takes time.

The model is always live in Revit.

Revit now has Max render engine built into it.

Vectorworks now has the Cinema 4D engine built into it.

As the software gets more complex it takes more experience to drive it well. Main problem with VW in NZ is that it is not used in any of the Architect Schools. All the recent grads can use Revit. The cost to train in VW means it can be a more expensive option.

You can 'break down' the VW file with Work Group Referencing, BUT you can have very complex file structures to manage.

I'm on VW now because I know it the best... if I was starting a new I would probably go Revit.

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Hi Himanshu its not just about how the core software handles because they all have there pros and cons, but its also how you can grow your package to meet your future and industry requirements. For an example its taken VW years to truly link its software to Cinema 4D even though its part of the same group as well as developing the ability for VW to display hatches and fills in a 3d view/port and that lack of vision seems to be predominant.

Take a look at what ArchiCad can do and bolt on i.e. FrameWright, EcoDesigner, Cinema 4D, Piranesi and many, many more. As for AutoCad well the list is endless but it has core features and compatible products as raw total station file and point-cloud support, PhoToPlan, Ecotect Analysis and 3ds Max etc, etc, etc.

As for Rivet I don't know much about it, but make sure when you make your final decision that you are looking to the future and what services you would like to provide your clients as you could be restricted if you go to NVW?

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The best answer to the question posed on this thread is to try them out for yourself.

There is a 30 day trial for Vectorworks 2011. Also, Archicad and Revit can be downloaded for a trial period.

I would venture to say that for the sake of interoperability, Vectorworks is much better at importing Autocad and 3DS files than Revit (the answer to #7 on the list). Try it and see!

Edited by Bob-H

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Archicad does not do free form modeling!

Archicad is limited to only one layer to each given Delta Z (story)(you cannot have 2 layers that go from say 0-3000mm in the Z direction, this is hell when working with diff alternatives in the same model)

Archicad does not have auto join walls (not to be confused with auto clean walls)

Archicad does not have associative slabs

ArchiCAD has an irritating limited Worksheet system

ArchiCAD has window/door/stair etc PIOs that actually do what they should plus a little more.

ArchiCAD has Teamwork

ArchiCAD is somewhat easier to learn (mainly because it can do less)

(In Sweden) Graphisoft has an excellent service and support group including an good customization to local building standards.

NVW has a distributer that refuses to take any calls or answer to any email queries. Zero customization to local building standards (However the NVW forum must be one of the best in the world?! Half of what I have learned in VW comes from the Forum)!

Edited by Vincent C

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Good list Vincent. ArchiCAD has a pretty good forum too.

Archicad does not have auto join walls (not to be confused with auto clean walls)

This is a strange old one. ArchiCAD's on-the-fly clean wall intersections are fantastic but there's no option to auto join. Vectorworks can auto-join but it makes a complete hash of component joins.

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I wish VW had the multiview/live window component like Revit. Updating viewports gets VERY old.

Personally though I haven't used Revit, but I've used AutoCad and I much perfer VW, and the price is certainly better.

Unfortunately though I think the global AEC industry is probably going to be supporting Revit more than VW. The IFC doesn't seem to be taking on much traction with material vendors who are building most of their products for a BIM librarys in Revit. I hope VW keeps pace with being able to export and import BIM models with Revit while keeping the BIM intelligence. I know IFC is suppose to address this issue, but I think Autodesk is downplaying IFC and not supporting it very well, as a market dominance strategy.

VW is very good software for its price.

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So it would seem with all the talk of Revit being more used and popular compared to ArchiCAD

Is that correct?

If so NV's parent company may be losing traction there also

mmmmmmmm

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I wish VW had the multiview/live window component like Revit. Updating viewports gets VERY old.

Another critical factor is time spent editing components (or symbols). I really dislike how much more time Revit takes to change a door or window that Vectorworks can do in a few seconds. For example, changing the number of glass panels in a door or window. Or even simple things, like re-sizing a door or window (i.e., a size that's not in the "family"). Anyone who ever tries to do this in Revit will know what I'm talking about. This amounts to hours of tedious work, and can mess up a completion deadline. In my opinion, Vectorworks helps me to avoid that risk.

Manually updating a viewport is nothing compared to this.

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Another big minus for ArchiCAD: doors and windows are assigned the wall class they are placed in?! (Doors and windows cannot be placed individually, they must be placed in a wall and cannot have their own class)

Edited by Vincent C

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ArchiCAD: there are no class settings other than show/hide, lock and priority (eg. different priorities ensure that walls don't auto clean)

Edited by Vincent C

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Most Revit users seem to get along fine without any NURBS curves or surfaces, but I recently needed to do NURBS modeling in Vectorworks for a hull-shaped roof. It was easy to draw a dome, and NURBS curves along the dome surface to make some surfaces as additions to the dome.

The other things that baffles me about Revit is the 2D detail-drawing thing. I can do it very well in Vectorworks - using polys and lines, and all kinds of hatches, fills, and the new tiles. But in Revit I just don't get it - 2D drawing tools are more limited, and are constrained to plan, elevation and section views.

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While Revit's 2D drawing tools are inferior to Vw's you can:

View>New>Drafting View in revit to draw in 2D and it will be unassociated to any plan and section. The problem lies I think when you want to reference that drafting view to a section, plan or elevation. Thats when BIM gets in the way....IMO.

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I'll just through tis out there. I will change can't with doesn't! VW doesn't charge an arm and two legs (notice they leave one arm, gotta run the mouse!)!

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I recently dumped Revit because of the cost to me to keep subscriptions alive. I will miss all the really vast community, the models and the useful training and use hints available at no cost. Revit is much better integrated into the architectural community, suppliers, contractors and even building owners now. Even so and looking forward for my use of Vectorworks, especially now 2011 Architect, appears to serve the purpose very well enough. I love the doors and windows and the true 3D model space. I am a small operation now and so VW looks perfect for me. If I ever have to go back to Revit, I know that the training is easily accessible, much more intuitive and affordable - the community college here offers Revit classes for about 50.00 US a semester!

An architect friend, who has just committed to Revit for his small one person operation, is fairly disgusted with the slow interface response of Revit 2010 and now 2011 when the files have much size to them. He has upgraded his processors and ram twice recently. He was told by Autodesk training to always keep a template file with all that might be needed as a start point. Even with his small-ish operation, the template file was bloated and unwieldy - so now ditching that idea - he has to (mostly) begin all over again with each new model.

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Revit can read and write Revit files. VW can't.

I'm getting a lot of projects done in Revit, where the architects and engineers are distributing their product as Revit models, at least up to the point of producing construction documents. They have no interest in converting their Revit models to any other format, so at some point, I will have to begin doing more work in Revit.

It's a serious threat to Vectorworks in my field.

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Revit will not read and write Vectorworks files.

I think is arrogant for a consultant to say that they will not translate their file into any other format, especially when you see how much revit costs...

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Arrogant is a rather polite way of putting it. You could explain that just because they're drones who slavishly follow the crowd doesn't mean you are.

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I see this issue becoming ever more prevalent. We were recently appointed by a large developer and the appointment documents specifically require you to use AutoCAD. This was just before the Mac version was even released...so the cost of hardware, software and re-training meant this was a non-starter...so we ignored it.

They recently realized that the DWGs they are receiving are not native and we came very close to being sacked...and in breach of contract we could have lost a LOT of money...

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Revit will not read and write Vectorworks files.

I think is arrogant for a consultant to say that they will not translate their file into any other format, especially when you see how much revit costs...

Vectorworks is the bigger program. Why does the smaller program (Revit) not read read the files of the bigger program?

I have stated this but never got an answer: I think at this moment Vectorworks is the widest spread BIM capable program?

If I m right, how come we don't see any positive effect of that position?

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