Jump to content

stair tool anyone?


jnr

Recommended Posts

So I haven't downloaded or ordered the new 2011 version however if the track record is consistent, we get more bells and whistles in the stair tool (are there still two of them?), but do we get any better stability? the 09 and 10 versions had schizoid stair tools that repeated stairs, made them disappear, caused them to shift arbitrarily into space and in general, stunk. I don't know how much time I wasted getting a simple switchback stair to work on a multistory building. And what's the point of having a stair tool which will insert a stair on one floor, but not appear on the floor above it (new in 2010). I mean isn't this the definition of a stair? Why have it? I hope someone at NNA has had the forethought in the last year to put both stair vendors in a locked room and make them produce one tool that works. I guess we'll see.

Link to comment

on the topic of the horrible stair tool,

i've just discovered a very nasty glitch

in the VW12.5 stair tool.

our structural engineer saved us from

hitting site with incorrect drawings

when she noticed her section wouldn't

match my plan...

in this case the tool shows the wrong

number of stairs in 2D, <1 tread shorter

than it says it is, and who actually

counts every tread?>

the nasty reality rears its head toggling

between 2D + 3D plan views, the stair jumps

one tread longer, and doesn't fit the carefully

planned space allowed for the flight.

on this extremely tight site, the stair

is a pivotal item + governs the geometry

of all other rooms....

i wonder if my PI insurance would chip in

if a screwup like this arrived on site?

i know NNA wouldn't...

and now who knows how many hours work

tweaking everything to get it to work

thanks for nothing NNA

Link to comment

I feel your pain. did you make sure the check box for show the top tread was turned off? that could take you out at the knees as well. The stair tool blew even worse then than it does now.

That being said, I would encourage you to upgrade. There are significant improvements in the software since 12.5 and despite its shortcomings it usually pays to upgrade. what I've learned since minicad 7 is never do it on the first release. Wait until the .1 release. my problem of late is that my usage of the software does not keep up with speed of the releases. In other words they're making significant improvements to keep up with the market yet I can't learn it fast enough to stay current. I don't use it as often in this worthless economy. You're now two to three releases behind and there's significant improvements which would easily save you the time of the cost of the upgrade, let alone the cost to correct the error in the field. In sum staying on top of it takes a time investment, getting several versions behind can also cost you.

sounds like you have a good engineer. Finding a good one is well worth it.

-J

Link to comment
my problem of late is that my usage of the software does not keep up with speed of the releases. In other words they're making significant improvements to keep up with the market yet I can't learn it fast enough to stay current. I don't use it as often in this worthless economy.

-J

I have to agree with you there however it is not only of late when I worked with Microstation a few years back we had the same, like having to learn a new program every year! After a couple of years you start getting tired of starting over!

I've considered upgrading every other year however there are always improvements one can't live without for another year :).

Edited by Vincent C
Link to comment

jnr

i have a series of viewports + section viewports

to view the stair from all sides + dimensions to

try to figure out what it's doing. toggling the

top tread only makes it worse, it changes the 3D

to match the 2D, but the stair doesn't reach the

correct height anymore!

i've narrowed it down to the fact that i

have a 90? winder at the top of the flight,

i.e. 2 treads to turn 90?, which it shows

in 2D but seems incapable of getting right

in 3D

the 'upgrade-will-fix-it' mantra is nonsense.

12.5.3 was a serious upgrade to 12.0, yet

the stair tool has a major technical defect.

from the sounds of it the new stair does less

than the V12.5 tried to do and is even less

fit for use...

hopefully, it doesn't also make mistakes...

Link to comment

g:

I guess I wasn't suggesting that upgrading would fix it. I do seem to recall however that in the case of the stair tool, especially when trying to do a more complex configuration, the added functionality in the later versions, specifically 12.5 forward, might get you where you want to go with less stress. What sticks in my craw is that we now have two stair tools with every conceivable iteration know to man instead of one. If one had to guess the older stair tool (the one you're frustrated with) which began as stable, simple code, was quickly given new belts and suspenders, is now slow and clunky; destabilized by bloated bell and whistle code. The new stair while sexy and seemingly stable (different vendor?), is worthless as it won't work in a multi-story building (at least in 2010). One may ask why have it if it can't satisfy the most fundamental aspect of its definition. My suggestion about upgrading, especially as far back as you are, is what you gain in productivity with improvements to the drafting environment, stair tool be dammed. For what its worth, you could always download the demo, see what you think then decide. Since I make heavy use of 3d and rendering, the radical increases in speed having switched vendors to cinema 4d from lightworks makes it worth while for me. The upgrade would pay for itself in time saved. That said, I'll switch when A) I have work and B) have the dough to pay for it. All of this is of course, moot if the economy doesn't improve.

Link to comment

jnr,

i have a different problem to you

slow to upgrade because i really want

to feel i have outgrown a version, or

because a new version has a totally

compelling new feature i actually need

and if the 2011 stair doesn't get to the

upper level then it isn't a good reason

for me to upgrade.

the useful features of a stair is actually

getting from one level to another, the

upper level being as important to me as

the lower level, but maybe i don't really

understand stairs as well as NNA...>

i'm also a bit nervous of upgrading now

due to the unusual situation of too much

work + no time to get up to speed with

an upgrade...

we'll see how 2011 is received + if things

slack off i'll give it a go...

Link to comment

On a side note, I thought of an adequate way to overcome this for the time being until they get it working properly:

How about they add an option in the stair dialog in which we can draft a 2D image (using a wireframe top view of the actual stair as a trace) which will represent the stair as a symbol in Top/plan view one story up.

I know it is a work around however at least it then is connected/integrated to the stair and it is easy to draft and edit using the 3D stair as a trace.

This option can even be useful in the future (when the stair tool actually works in this regard) as an option for those cases where different building standards or strange stair solutions cannot be solved with the standard stair tool and available annotations.

Link to comment

To get my stairs to show up on multiple levels I put them on a separate layer that I created called Mod-Stair (which is turned on in main and upper floors in viewports).

If using the 'height by layer elevations' option, the lower level must be set at 'Mod-Stair' otherwise the stair will automatically be placed on whatever layer is selected there.

It's definitely a struggle to get the results I want from the stair & railing tools. Hopefully these will be improved!

Jen

Link to comment

vincent,

the "2d-upper-level-trick" is

exactly what the 12.5 stair does,

and i guess the 20xx "old stair"

still works the same way?

if you look at the lower level

in 3D the full stair is modelled

regardless of any cut lines, but

if you look at the upper level

the stair from the lower level

is not there at all, even though

is does show in 2D...

i suspect it is drawn in 2D by

the PIO, as a calculated routine,

rather than a hiddenline top view,

because it wouldn't make mistakes

between the 2D + 3D representations

if it was just a rendering of a 3D.

but i guess it would be slower to

render than draw a calculated 2d?

we live in hope, and frustration

Link to comment

It fascinates me that after what, four versions of this software, we're still having a conversation about the stability and functionality of one of the most fundamental components of architecture, that the company's response each time is to add more bells and whistles and make things more complex instead of simply providing something that WORKS (see recent other stair post). I spend more time screwing around fixing defective stairs (regardless of version) than just about any other task.

This is getting old.

Link to comment
It fascinates me that after what, four versions of this software, we're still having a conversation about the stability and functionality of one of the most fundamental components of architecture, that the company's response each time is to add more bells and whistles and make things more complex instead of simply providing something that WORKS (see recent other stair post). I spend more time screwing around fixing defective stairs (regardless of version) than just about any other task.

This is getting old.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Link to comment

Having worked with several of the worlds best cad apps i have never happened across a stair tool that is capable of doing everything we wish/ask for with respect to the 2D and 3D integration.......this leads me to believe that it must be a very complicated pio to develop. Not that this is an excuse to stop trying, but lets hope that NNA is the first to develop one soon.........

Link to comment
  • 4 months later...

anything new on this matter recently? the top floor still doesn't show the stair.

i initially thought about the lacking visibility depth in the floor plans (especially the topmost one), but i can't either find out how to set it at all.

i'm a bit lost here...

thanks in advance for any clue.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...