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Yoginathaswami

Vectorworks 2011 ?Release note

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Mike,

thanks for the heads up on the working plane, but I've got that down pat.

If I draw a circle in top/plan and dim it, then extrude, no problem.

If I draw a circle in iso view and dim it no problem till I extrude then dim floats to the left or right.

And when I just extrude cant use circ dims but can set plane to side and dim that ok.

It may be a bug as this is a 30 day test for me. I WILL be upgrading as I am quite pleased overall.

I would like to show you what I get but I don't know how to show image from my screen, If you would be so kind as to direct me in the right manner to do so I would post right away.

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Nature Boy, Yes I can confirm that the radial dimension does not seem to work on an extrude (or a floor of the same basic construct). I would say this is a bug. I woukd be happy to BugList it, unless you want to. Interestingly the linear dimension tool(s) seem to behave as expected.

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Good I thought I was loosing my mind.

Peter, go ahead and report it, I have never reported a bug, and I will research how to for future issues.

Thanks for confirming my conundrum.

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Peter,

How about radial dimensioning in viewports? Are you able to do that without the use of 2D arcs/circles?

I use design layers for modeling and sheet layers for presenting. 3D-dimensioning and radial dimensioning in design layers only, is of no practical use, to me.

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Yes I'd like to also know about 3D/radial dimensioning in Viewports.

I have always been lead to believe that you should add dimensions through the annotation part of the viewport but after reading from earlier in this thread perhaps that is not correct.

Should the dimensions be added to the design layer and then just viewed in the viewport?

In the past this process would not seem to have been practical as when you change your 3D view the dimensions would be all mucked up (also already mentioned earlier).

If 3D/radial dimensions do not work in a viewport is this the better option rather than having to draw 2D circles over the viewport?

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

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In the early days when model space was introduced to a number of CAD packages the focus was on drawing the model in 1:1 and using the sheet layers or paper space with viewports to provide the scale and apply text in one scale (1:1 on the paper or sheet). One the biggest problems that I have had importing drawings from other CAD systems into VW is when the drawings and details are drawn in model space and various scales and dim scales are used.

I see it as a step backward putting the dimensions and annotations on the design layer and then viewing in the viewport. But it does explain to me why people would want to scale the model rather than use 1:1 scale.

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If I dimension on the design layer it would mean having and very cluttered drawing and having to constantly turn on and off the dimension class.

There would also be some dimensions that I would want to show in one view and not in another which would mean more than one dimension class.

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For architects it is the only way so long as we cannot govern, to a much larger extent, the way live sections/elevations are shown.

To keep track of changes to model and annotations in 2 different places seems to me a system more prone to error than having everything in the same 'model file'. Perhaps the introduction of scale sensitive annotations/dimensions is the way to go instead?

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If you do the dimensioning on the model in the design layer, how do you handle inset type details at a different scale? Is this what you use the viewports for?

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I draw everything 1:1 in design layers using DLVP as traces when necessary.......then use SLVPs for the layouts superimposing several SLVPs where necessary, ie. SLVP with live section/elevation with the 2D section/elevation design layer superimposed onto this.

Usually scales change in later stages of a projects however this affects all annotation/dimensions in each DL so updating these is a one step action, which doesn't take to much time, otherwise we use different classes for different dimension scales (however this is seldomly necessary...).

I guess it is also different in different countries......

However I guess you can't compare Architecture and MD straight off like that, they are very different disciplines as are the demands for drafting.

(ArchiCAD has annotation scale sensitivity which is useful but not dimension scale sensitivity, which is less useful :).) At least we have VP annotation capabilities, however scale sensitive annotation/dimensions would be an extra advantage (I must admit it also a question of what one is used to, I've never used SLVP annotation spo am perhaps somewhat apprehensive to starting...)

Edited by Vincent C

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You can add dims to a design layer that's used for annotations.

You have one design layer for the model. You then have a design layer where you have a viewport of that model, so you can annotate, and then you have a sheet layer for a viewport of that layer.

I know it's an extra step, but it sometimes works faster then using annotations, because they tend to slow down things. But I do believe that you need to use the annotations of a viewport as much as you can because it's the correct way to do those things.

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I draw everything 1:1 in design layers using DLVP as traces when necessary.......

Sorry I tell a lie :( I draw everything to scale in DLs then change the scale of these accordingly as the project develops.......

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Just curious, who told you to use viewport annotations for dimensioning?

Aloha, Ray: Do you have any thoughts that you don't mind sharing? I am curious to find out what are other options...

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I'm of the growing opinion that the elegance of functionality and balance between DLs, SLs, DLVPs and SLVPs is becoming more and more corrupted.

It appears that there is no correct & comprehensive way to dimension a project.

Annotations in SLVPs seemed at one point to be where most dimensioning would eventually live. However, 3d dimensioning is now confined to Design Layers, (as are 3d annotations) The Auto-dimension walls command still only works on a design layer and any dimensioning created on a SLVP are not useful when working on the model.

Dimensioning on a Design Layer leads to clutter & scaling issues.

I had a dream where all dimensions would live in a SLVP as an annotation,

where 2d, 3d and auto-wall dimensions could be created as an annotation

where the SLVP would know, upon invoking the dimension tool, that an annotation was coming - and forgo the redundant q&a required to edit the Viewport Annotation (I know it can be set as a preference)

where dimensions created on a Design layer could be automatically sent to join the SLVP Annotations,

where annotations could be selectively ghosted and usefully displayed on the Design Layer

and where pressing the key combinations n-5, n-2, n-6 would automatically place dimensions on planes parallel to the x-y, x-z and y-z respectively.

Of course a 2 cursor system might be needed to keep the information from becoming overwhelming in the DL and a way to selectively display the available project dimensions on each viewport would need to be incorporated.

In the meantime - I'm liking Ray's idea more to "dimension on the design layer when possible, in annotations when I can't."

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When you have many many parts that need to be dimensioned and sent out to be machined it just isn't practical to dimension them all on the design layer.

I was hoping that 3D dimensioning would be the complete package...ah well.

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Dimensioning is like any other notation. A few guidelines and observations follow:

1. Dimensions that show up on more than one view (i.e. more than one drawing) MUST be placed in design layer. For architecture, this includes controlling dimensions, grid dimensions, etc.

2. Dimensions that are "detailed" dimensions (i.e. that show up on one and only one drawing) may be drawn in the DL and specially classed (for that drawing only) or drawing in the SL annotation.

3. There are an awful lot of people who, contrary to much of the above dimension discussion, use sheet layer VPs for sheet formatting only. They don't "trust" VP annotations and draw everything on the DL.

4. Prior to Vectorworks 2011, if you wanted a dimension in a working plane other than the ground plane (aka layer plane), you HAD to draw that dimension in the viewport annotation. Now it's optional. As of Vectorworks 2011, I don't believe there are any circumstances where dimensions must be placed in sheet layers.

5. Text scaling "advanced properties" in Viewports will handle the dimension scaling / readability issues for dims on design layers.

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That all sounds good for dimensioning an object overall and then picking out the details, but if I need to show 3 views (top, side and front) of a single part in a multi-part mechanism the design layer becomes very cluttered.

Surely it must take extra time to specify the each working plane and then the corresponding dimensions rather than directly dimensioning the specified view in the viewport?

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Aloha, Robert:

These are very useful general guidelines! Thank you.

As for 3D dimensioning, in my opinion this is a great start what we got going in VW2011. As users we can make suggestion to improve it. We can't really aspect the programmer to know what each one of us want. Mind reading is not easy even for meditative monks! ;-) We just have to add more to the wish list and wish that they will be read and taken into consideration.

Perhaps NA can offer some perks to the users come up with good suggestions and useable solutions. This could create positive feeling about their contributions...

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Novedge have posted on Vimeo their recent Webinar What's new in Vectorworks 2011 by Jonathan Pickup (author of the Vectorworks Training Manuals). It can be viewed here:

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