bcd Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Hi all, This is a major frustration on a current project. Custom 3d Symbols which have been rotated about 2 axes are automatically rotating back to their default position. This happens sporadically and without any obvious predictability / cause. Has anyone seen this mis-behaviour before or is there a hidden cause/ solution? Thanks Brian Quote Link to comment
GWS Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I have had a similar problem with PIOs. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get to the bottom of it. It has stopped me using bolts and bearings etc. I'm still hoping that someone might have the answer. If I find a solution I'll be sure to post it here. Quote Link to comment
Pat Stanford Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 The default VW2010 workspace(s) (at least Designer and Architect) have Command Shift 0 (zero) assigned as a keyboard shortcut for the Unrotate 3D Objects command. You are probably hitting this accidentally. I recommend you edit your workspace to remove this shortcut. If I remember correctly, the command is actually in two places in the workspace. You will have to find the correct one to be able to remove the shortcut. At least in the early versions of VW2010 it was directly in the Modify menu and also in the Rotate submenu of the modify menu. They may have removed one of these. Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted July 31, 2010 Author Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) A good thought Pat, however it's happening on objects on an inactive layer that are not selected and other objects that are within a group. It seems to happen only with objects that are rotated about both the Z and X axis. Sometimes it appears to happen on opening the file but can't be sure of that. Also - I had an issue in the past of an imported pdf un-rotating & distorting itself at will. I'm relieved GWS not to be alone on this carousel. ps - I've since locked the objects and haven't seen the un-rotate again yet. Edited July 31, 2010 by bcd Quote Link to comment
GWS Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 I too find this happening upon opening a file. It's almost like the rotated info has been lost or is not being read properly. I did send a file a while ago containing this problem to the bug submit department but did not get any resolution. I'll try the locking idea, it sounds promising. Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted July 31, 2010 Share Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) This is not an operator error. I have had this problem with specific files from before VW 11 ... I have tried on several occasions to have this problem at least recognised but as yet no joy ... And yes I am still seeing this problem in 2010! Locking the objects has not worked for me. Edited July 31, 2010 by Kim Quote Link to comment
GWS Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 It is frustrating that the problem is not recognised, when I submitted it I was told that it couldn't be replicated and that seemed to be the end of it. (It does mean that I hesitate to use any of the PIO's that ship with MD) Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 I wish it was just with the pio's but I have had the problem with extrusions as well. I agree though that some of the pio's, bearings, lock nuts to name a couple seem particularly problematic. And what I see is exactly the same, for some unknown reason, often upon opening the file some objects have rotated to the original orientation. Some of these objects are inside groups or symbols and not all the parts un-rotate. But it's usually the same one's even after they have been replaced. Quote Link to comment
GWS Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Agreed. It is often in a group or subtraction as well as a stand alone object. Having to re-rotate every bolt or bearing in a drawing is prohibitive. Quote Link to comment
islandmon Posted August 1, 2010 Share Posted August 1, 2010 Me to .. since v11 at least ... odd behaviour ... one day all is swell... next session = chaos. Never have discovered causality... appears to be a random nuisance with a few hybrid symbols or something. Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted August 2, 2010 Author Share Posted August 2, 2010 I'm glad to hear it's more widespread, I notice so far everybody on this post is running a mac, a clue perhaps Watson? It does seem like VW is forgetting the rotation matrix associated with the objects, although the 3d center position seems to remain correct. Yes. For me it's happening with symbols composed of extrudes & 3d polygons. I wonder. Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I was wondering if I had some how brought forward an old symbol from way back when, that was somehow corrupting my new files, so I sat down with 2010MD and started redrawing all our machines from scratch, no small task. A lot of them contain 10's if not hundreds of gaugeable fittings and associated pipework, transducers, drive motors, wiring etc etc ... So not only did I start the drawing from scratch but also recreating all the fittings as symbols and their associated records ... We use the record/spreadsheet extensively for manufacturing purposes. Thankfully, although I say that reservedly, the same problem occurred in the very first drawing and this time with something as simple as an extruded RHS section ... I love VW and have used it virtually forever but this is starting to drive me nut's, not to mention having to defend it's use when these problems continue to occur ... I dread the thought of having to move to another app ... Come on guy's, admit there is a problem and lets get it sorted-!!!!! Quote Link to comment
mike m oz Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 KIm et al if you have instances of these rotating problems please submit them as bugs so NNA have real examples they can investigate. The more examples they have the more likely it is that they will be able to find the cause. Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Great Mike, I've just resent some files I submitted previously and a new one ... Quote Link to comment
Horst M. Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 3d Symbols definately unrotate due to a bug! I can somehow reproduce it. It happens to rotated Symbols on invisible Classes, if I change the Class Options in the Navigation Palette, for example from Show/Snap/Modify others to Snap Others or show others, nad If I change the Current View after changing the Class Option. When I did that, and make the Class with the rotated symbols visible again, they are all unrotated. It's definately a (desaterous) Bug! I haven't figured out a definte recipy yet, but i f I play with rotating the Symbols, Changing the Class Options, and Visiblities of the Symbiols, and the Current View. The 3d Symbols unrotate. Quote Link to comment
Steve Barrett Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I just started having this issue on my last two projects. One of the symbols was supplied by a vendor and the other symbol I created from a simple extrude. I noticed the problem in sheet layer viewports that were created using the renderworks camera. If I make a similar view with manually and using a viewport crop, then it renders properly...until I update the view created by the RWC. Then it all goes wonky again. SB Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 The viewports are just views of the actual model and are a snap shot of the condition of the model at the time they are created/updated. The one thing that seems to appear with everyone is changing class visibility (possibly layer vis too?). I don't think it is the navigation pane as such since it was happening as far back as V11.5, to my knowledge, and that version didn't have the pane. Somehow changing visibility seems to interfere with the rotation ... Glad I'm not the programmer who has to find this one, but whoever it is I hope they are really good, really fast, already on to it and get it fixed real soon ... As an aside, my email will only allow me to send 20mb emails, is there another way to send files to bugsubmit? I would prefer to send them whole files rather than having to strip stuff out, which may be part of the problem. Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted August 15, 2010 Share Posted August 15, 2010 Another observation ... I have a model with framework made from 50 x 50 x 3 RHS, created with the Square tubing-3D tool. On opening the drawing the horizontal pieces have unrotated back to vertical. Using the 3D cursor I can select each one however when I select one and then select the rotate tool I am only offered 2D rotation capabilities. Create an new piece identical to the first, select it then the rotate tool and 3D rotation options appear. Select the unrotated one again and only 2D options. Note the OIP is saying it is 3D Square Tubing. Quote Link to comment
bcd Posted August 15, 2010 Author Share Posted August 15, 2010 (edited) you can use yousendit.com to transmit large files. PS - new project, new file new auto-un-rotates Edited August 15, 2010 by bcd Quote Link to comment
AndiACD Posted August 21, 2010 Share Posted August 21, 2010 Believe it or not, i've had this happen a few time on 2009 too. Recently, subtracted 3D threads deeply nested in a custom Symbol. 4 of them each at 90deg around the Y axis. The 2 verticaly placed remained in position, even the lower which is rotated through 180, but the other 2 were rotated also on the Z axis as i opened the stage when editing it. ??? Repositioning them solved it for now, so not sure if it would show up again if i sent NAA the file. Quote Link to comment
Kim Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Ok, don't quote me, but word is they have found the problem and it has been fixed for VW2011 ... glory be, praise the ... well, whatever you feel the need to ... the short term fix, as suggested, boils down to not using 3d symbols. I'm still a little skeptical, pretty sure I've had a few PIO's flip on me too. So what I've done is make a new file. I'm rebuilding each, what would have been symbol, making it a group, adding associated records, classes etc and using this as my 'symbol' file. Just copy and paste as needed into the model drawing. You'll probably have to change all your search criteria if you use spreadsheets for parts-list/Bom etc in your templates and also throw out the symbols. Rather than just throw them away altogether, when I get a chance, I'm going to try converting to group and save them in a separate 'symbols' file but I'm a bit rushed to have a major 'cok-up' at the moment. Means the file gets a bit bigger (heaps) this way but not having to re-assemble the %## thing every morning is well worthwhile. So far so good ... Apart from that I got to say the modeling in 2010 is brilliant, being able to actually work in the 3d envelope instead of trolling around in 2d really brings it to life. Throw in 3d constraints, 3d dimensions and some real engineering design & documentation tools, ala Pro-engineer, and we are onto a winner ... Quote Link to comment
e26Design_marc j Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 I have been having the same rotate anomaly with 3d symbols (or rather UN-rotate) ever since switching to 2010. I literally thought I had gone bananas. It is a bug - should get fixed now without having to buy next year's copy. Very disappointing.... Quote Link to comment
GWS Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 agreed. It should be a fix rather than having to buy the upgrade Quote Link to comment
Assemblage Posted September 3, 2010 Share Posted September 3, 2010 And Reconcile Notes. Anything which the software explicitly says it can do, and then does not actually do it. Quote Link to comment
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