objects disappear when in 'hidden line' mode

[kellerlichter]

Hi

when switching from 'wire frame' view to 'hidden line' objects disappear. the objects that disappear are subtracted solids and then turned into symbols.

I'd attach some screen shots to explain if only I knew how...

Best,

Timo

[Ray Libby]

Click on the Switch to Full Reply Screen link below and use File Manager to upload files.

[kellerlichter]

Thanks Ray.

Things don't just disappear, yet they are splattered all across the drawing board it appears. For whatever reason. Simple extrudes are not affected, but both solid additions and subtractions are affected (I will try further if they are only affected once they have been made into symbols).

Any suggestions?

[Ray Libby]

If you could upload the file here we could take a look.

[kellerlichter]

It's getting better by the minute. In order to assess whether the symbol affects it I now did another window and simply grouped 3 elements (2 solid additions and two extrusions). Now switching modes TURNS the solid additions by 90 degrees...

It's not that I haven't done any 3D before, and slightly more complex than this, although admittedly not too much. But it's the first time I'ver ever experienced anything like it.

Very weird.

Ray, file is 12mb, a bit too large for upload. Can I email it?

[Ray Libby]

You could zip the file and change the extension to .txt (the forum doesn't allow zip files). Include instructions to change the extension back to .zip with your post.

[kellerlichter]

As suggested.

zip file as .txt file. Change extension back to .zip before extracting.

[kellerlichter]

In the file, go to saved views and choose view 01. then switch from wire frame to hidden line mode and look what's happening...

Am working in VW2009 Fundamentals.

[michaelk]

I'm seeing it, too.

I don't know what causes it, but it seems to be a problem w/ the solid addition.

I can make it go away, but I don't know why it works.

The problem is in the solid additions. I copied one of the solid additions to a new document to make life easier.

Double click the solid addition to edit.

Copy one of the elements of the solid edition.

Exit the solid addition.

Paste the geometry beside the original solid addition.

Switch to Hidden Line. Solid addition still has problem. Copied and pasted geometry does not.

Double click the solid addition to edit.

Copy the other element of the solid edition.

Exit the solid addition.

Paste the geometry.

Switch to Hidden Line. No problems.

It's a mystery. Did any parts of this drawing begin life in an older version of VW?

MK

Another clue. Just drilling down all the way into the solid addition sub objects makes the entire object disappear.

ie. double click the solid addition

double click an extrude.

Exit the Extrude. Exit the Solid addition.

The solid addition had moved to another part of the drawing.

very strange.

[kellerlichter]

Michael, hi,

yes I observed the same when 'drilling' into the solid addition. It went to somewhere completely different.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think the template was set up in VW2009. And as I'm working in 2009, not much has changed.

I've done bits and bobs in 3D before, with more complex additions/subtractions, but never noticed anything similar.

Will give it a try in a completely new document tomorrow, see how that goes.

I tried your suggestion and noticed yet another weird thing. There are for separate window frames next to what once is supposed to become the building (boomerang shaped). The windows in the foreground perform correctly while the windows in the building (which are essentially the same groups as in the foreground) go bananas (see the small bank of windows to the left of the large frame in the foreground on 'windows 3'...)

[Ray Libby]

I see it too, you have a corrupt 3D object.

If all these windows are the same you should use symbols, not groups.

You should make the widow frame from a front view by drawing a rectangle for the outside of the frame, then two rectangles for the glazing, then clip surface, then extrude. A much simpler 3D object.

[michaelk]

I agree w/ Ray about using symbols. Life is much better w/ symbols.

Does any of this geometry have autocad in its ancestry? Are any of the windows mirrored from other windows?

[kellerlichter]

Thanks Michael and Ray.

All windows were built from scratch and so that they could be used from both inside and outside, with an option to make the glass transparent - hence the more complicated build-up.

All were made into symbols initially, but in order to figure out if that caused the problems I tried it with groups.

Will build another model in a new file today and see how that goes.

Thanks,

Timo

[Ray Libby]

Try to avoid building it with multiple solid additions.

[michaelk]

Ray knows far better than I, but I've never seen the problems he mentions w/ multiple solid additions(/subtractions/intersections).

I have had similar issues when mirroring symbols. Rarely - but it happens - a focus vector on spotlight instruments can get turned 90?, nurbs directions flip in a way I didn't expect, and relative positions get wonky.

If that happened in your drawing and you duplicated the mirrored windows, that might explain why some windows went nuts and some didn't.

I've never seen relative positions get as crazy as yours, however.

There was a thread a while ago about how solids of a given class behave when the solid is one class and the defining 2D geometry is the same vs different class(es).

http://techboard.nemetschek.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=27383&Number=133198#Post133198

It can sometimes also cause the sudden disappearance of 3D objects. That doesn't seem to be causing your issue, (for a while I suspected it was) but it's something to be aware of when you're rolling your own windows.