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Try this: amend a note in the database, apply using text > reconcile notes...sheet layer notes are not updated. Why?

[ change database file extension from .pdf to .xml. This Community Board does not allow uploading of .xml files for some reason ]

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OK...a simpler example (attached): 3 sample notes. One instance of NOTE 02 is updated, using the database window. Reconcile Notes (RN) is run (screenshot attached). Questions:

- I manually reconcile each instance of NOTE 02 using "Update >" and hit OK. The notes in the file are not updated. Why..?? Help Notes gives no clue.

- Why has Reconcile Notes (RN) brought up NOTE 03 to be reconciled..? No changes were made to it.

- Why has RN brought up the instance of NOTE 02 which I have already amended? It should not need to be reconciled.

- Perhaps THE most common use of RN is to apply a change in the database to all instances in the file (like a symbol). Why is it not possible to do this all at once instead of manually to each instance?

Can I ask the Moderators to comment please. These are not obscure questions; VW literature explicitly says the software has this functionality.

[ change uploaded Database file extension to .xml ]

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I am not certain that any of the moderators use the notes facility. I know I don't.

I just played with your file for a few minutes and it does seem to react strangely. I changes one of the notes in the file and then updated the database from there and it replaced the Note 2 information in the database with the Note 3 information.

I recommend that you file a bug report with a WISH for the functionality you want. The link is at the upper right. The more clear you can be on what you want the more likely it is to be done correctly.

Sorry I can't be more help.

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Thanks Pat, I appreciate the reply. Can I ask: how DO people "centralise" their notes then? It would be good to know, and I'm sure others must have wondered.

Multiple revisions of notes across many drawings is a long-standing professional reality amongst architects (and I'm sure, others), so ability to change note content and have that reflected throughout a drawing set seems important..?

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For those who are in this same boat, I'm trying this work-around:

Abandon the call-out notes tool altogether and create notes with the text tool, and then make symbols of them. However:

- You have to manually draw the leader lines;

- The ability to group notes (which will usually run into their 100s) into logical/family sections etc is lost. Making symbol folders, and showing the symbols as a list instead of an icon helps;

- All the text-like behaviour is lost, eg word-wrap etc.

But so far it beats manually going through every sheet file trying to recall if each note may need updating. Clearly just a matter of time for a legal disaster..

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Totally

The tool obviously needs some work

I used the General Notes Tool yesterday and whilst it has potential it is I think a bit clunky

Also if it was improved how about being able to use a symbol instead of a number on the left side to create Legends

Saying all of this I think the text tools in VW generally all need a real good fix up

Yesterday I tried to do a spell check on my General Notes and up came something like Font Arial which had nothing to do with my content so a question also - can you spell check General Notes?

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..a further issue with abandoning Notes for symbols:

with any multi-file/multi-user project of course there's no central notes database and so you're back into a number of places which hold the project's notes (this time symbol folders) with all the consequential problems of not updating everywhere and duplicates which say different things. Messy. Expensive. Dangerous for the project.

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Peter,

It sounds like you may have found a bug or two that need to be sorted out. The system was not meant to behave erratically. For Vw2010, the intent was to make the Notes Database system robust and persistent across all the design and sheet layers of a single file. Interaction with the Notes Database from multiple files SHOULD be predictable and consistent. If not, then it is a bug and needs to be fixed, immediately.

My earlier testing did not seem to uncover the same problems you are now experiencing. I would like to have your issues formally submitted as bugs so that our engineers can address them.

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Ok, done.

Apart from the bug itself, I think there is a serious interface design issue. I suspect a reason the bug has taken a while to come to light is that people are sufficiently confused by the Reconcile Notes window that they assumed it was their lack of tool understanding than in fact a bug.

I'm convinced the vast majority of need out there is to be able to work text into the database, and then see the changes update all instances in the file (like a symbol), all at once and not manually note by note. If the interface was redesigned to make this dominant use very easy, with then other options available by drilling down, this would be a very good step forward. Currently all functionality options appear at once..it's really quite unintuitive, and hard to understand what the software is offering the user.

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Happy news..potentially. This seems to be working:

Write notes directly into a plain text editor, using tabs and put "NotesManagerDataFile" at the head (see attached my absurd vegetable test). When I added UPDATE, the notes updated correctly via Reconcile Notes.

But:

- Don't use VW to write and amend the notes. Use the text editor.

- The 'Locate' button in Notes Manager is still wrong. Locate them yourself.

- Reconciling notes one by one instead of all at once is still painful, but is an opportunity to review what's changed I suppose.

- VW usually places an ID number in the first column and I've just put "-". Does this mean my database will come crashing down in VW at some point? It would be good to hear from VW gurus out there about this. Has VW actually automatically given my items IDs that I can't see? If I should use an ID sequence it would be good to hear how to safely choose the first number.

With luck, this could mean you can now have one of your team members presiding over the quality of all the technical notes across a whole multi-file/user project, who only needs a text editor. Individual architects just need to Reconcile Notes before they issue.

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..and now, for some reason, it's not reconciling correctly any more. Have abandoned ship and swam back to making symbols of the callouts.

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You could try placing your notes via a keynote legend, linked to a notes database, and updating them there. With the right settings they should look the same on the drawings. The legend could be placed on a sheet layer but off to the side so that it does not print. I rely on keynote legends on my CD's. I have had a few funny things happen, but generally keynote legends seem to be reliable for keeping multiple instances of the same note up to date. I do, however, double check my drawing notes.

Edited by J Lucas

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Still doesn't update, at least I can't get it to. I made three files and placed some database callouts via keynotes as you outlined. I used the 'Note description from Database' option, so what appears in the drawing area is meaningful and not an abstract "34, 35, 36" or "F, G, H"..etc which I don't like about keynotes and anyway becomes unusable on larger multi-file/user projects. I amended one of the notes in the database and updated that instance in that sheet file.

The same note in the other files does not reflect the amendment. (i) Hitting "update" in their keynote PIO doesn't do it, (ii) nor does running Reconcile Notes or (iii) even closing all files, quitting and restarting VW doesn't. Same old wrong note..

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I'd be v grateful for help on this. It really is a problem that we can't update callouts centrally.

To plod on...

Attached is 2 sample files and a sample database [change extension from pdf to xml (the Community Board file upload doesn't accept xml for some reason)) with keynotes placed as Jeffrey O and J Lucas have suggested. I add "AMENDED" to both the Description and text of a note in the database. I actually save, close, and restart VW to ensure everything is updated. I run Reconcile Notes. Nothing reconciles. I get a somewhat odd message (see attached screenshot).

So. What. Is. Wrong.

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Fixes listed for SP2 include Reconcile Notes. Still doesn't work... please tell me it's me:

Test file and dbase attached (change dbase extension to .xml (the board's Files Manager doesn't accept .xml for some reason).

3 simple notes have been made. One has been clearly amended in the dbase. Reconcile Notes is run. The other notes don't reconcile.

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Is the tool working? Boring as it is, the case for notes functionality:

* The new Text Styles are welcome but builders and the courts need correct content - formatting is irrelevant to them. Correct content is central to practising architects actual needs. In many countries notes in fact take legal precedence over graphics.

* A typical drawing set will have numerous notes littered across each sheet, with each sheet updated numerous times before final construction issue. Keeping on top of this manually is tedious, time-consuming, expensive, and actually quite antiquated.

* Pushing text around via a database is what computers are good at anyway, and loads of programs do it already. VW does much more complex things; why an upgrade and 4+ SPs later is this still a stumbling block?

There's also the issue of having to run 'reconcile notes' at all. Why can't notes update everywhere automatically like a symbol - ie parametrically like other things? Just seems unnecessarily laboured...and it's just text, yes?

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Hi Aasemblage,

Have you had any further luck with this? We were hoping the notes manger had reached a usable level of functionality too, as we currently use the notes as sybols technique as you have outlined (with a concurrent excel database for searching generating a huge duplication of effort).

Second your final comments on notes functionality too.

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I just started to work on a large project that required keynoting and just realized now that changing one keynote in the database, will not automatically change the keynote references throughout the project. WTF?!?

Go through each one individually and update? You have got to be kidding?

Please tell me there is a way to universally update the keynote legend with the most current database information.

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Has anyone found a solution to this?

A centralised notes manager which automatically updates across files is a must - especially when working in multiple files with a team.

I tried out the notes manger / database today and was surprised that the notes within one file don't update automatically! What's the point in having the manager if it doesn't manage?

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