Fasteners Data

[Benson Shaw]

Wish: Fastener type, size, head, slot & thread info show as records in the OIP Data tab. That way Call Outs, Worksheets, and other "aware" objects can collect/display the info.

-B

[Pat Stanford]

It does not need to be in the data pane. In fact that would be a step back as you would have to manually enter the information.

If you use the Screw and Nut objects, they are a Plugin Object (PIO) and have a record (that you edit through the Object Info Palette (OIP)) that is accessible to a worksheet right now.

Draw some Screw and Nut objects and then go to Tools:Reports:Create Report and choose List All : Objects with a Record and set the record to be Screw and Nut. Set all of the possible columns and click OK. You will get a worksheet showing all of the data on each Screw and Nut object in the drawing.

You may have to think carefully about how you want to use the information as it may not show up in individual rows they way you may like, but it is all accessible.

[AndiACD]

Pat i think maybe that would be the direction Benson is heading in. Instantly accessable info, right there, but without the fuss of having to fiddle with it to get the read out that is useable. i get PIO thing and how if you look hard enough and learn how to dig deep enough, it's there, but it would sometimes be more helpful if just selecting the fixing VW would offer, free of charge, without calling out the rescue services, the info required.

Not nocking what IS there, simpler would be better though.

On the other hand, if i'm barking up the wrong tree Benson, my appologies.

[Benson Shaw]

Many thanks, Pat and Andi - I was thinking easier creation of call outs in detail drawings. This is to help future conservation work - it's easier for someone looking at the objects to understand the connections and disassembly process if they can just follow the callout leaderline to the info rather than trying to find the entry referenced in a long schedule, perhaps on another page.

I just drew a set of as-builts which ID the fastener size, type, mfg, vendor, etc as "hand" keyed callouts on the drawings. Many fasteners were not in the PIO list so I had to draw my own. It just got me thinking that this is what computers are good at and why am I working so hard? My wish is for the callout tool or some other text creation tool to access the data with perhaps a show/hide checkbox for each record item and some formatting capability. Or at least give me the whole data set and let me paste it into a text block - I can delete and reorder as nec.

I can get the report as Pat so kindly instructs (THX!). I could create and format a little report for each fastener I want to call. Works as long as the objects have records.

I finally finished my last project started in VW2009. I've been holding off installing my 2010 (which I bought in November and never opened yet!). More for me to explore/ and learn including enhanced record features.

-B

[AndiACD]

It just got me thinking that this is what computers are good at and why am I working so hard?

-B

-B, Yep. Catches me out every time. i get caught up in this aspect all to often and let my frustrasion get the better of me as a result.

Links to to display info is what makes computer functional and useful, easy access to it would make more sense.

[islandmon]

Howabout an OIP Dump Procedure...

it works like this:

Since every object has an associated OIP container with the ObjectInfo...

then it is possible to >

Dump ( copy ) all that info text from all fields within the OIP container

and move it ( paste ) to a new Dump container or Text Container or Note Container , etc...

simple... quick ... and very useful

[Pat Stanford]

Can you explain more about why you want this, how you want it to work and what you need it to do?

My script to create a worksheet showing all of the fields of a PIO is a good start to doing this. I just am having a hard time wrapping my head around what this is good for and how it should work.

[Benson Shaw]

This is just wishing. Can't speak for others

I want it for call outs on drawings. Fasteners were my current need with orig post. Esp because PIO fasteners display loads of info in the OIP and built in records. But any object and any info could be a candidate - OIP fields, user or default records, data tab, etc.

The records/info are accessed and displayed by an intelligent text object (Call Out Tool? Worksheet per Pat's method?). Perhaps the leader line activates all this when it is connected to the object it is calling. But I want to format - pick relevant items, rearrange, tab, line break, wrap, etc.

Or, probably easier per islandmon's Dump, grab the text from any source (OIP? worksheet?), paste it into a text block, and shuffle as nec.

-B

Edited June 18, 2010 by Benson Shaw

[GWS]

This would be a great help when annotating drawings. Worksheets are not the easiest things to get looking good and it takes a while to get the right info in the right places. (If they were more like an excel doc that would be a start).

Having the info available when clicking on the appropriate PIO, in a callout text block would be much easier and better than having a spreadsheet on the drawing.

I am always having to type into the callout tool info like, Tapped to M3 x 0.7, tap depth 12mm, drill depth 16mm etc,etc

[Benson Shaw]

Not backing off the wish here, but - All that object data, for fasteners for example, has to be loaded into the object. That means either really comprehensive data built into the PIO, or, more likely, user needs to add custom data to the object.

So this wish is now a fork with two or three prongs:

1. An easy way to get object data (OIP, records, etc) into a text block.

2. Fully annotated PIOs and other objects - lotsa data and records.

3. An easy method for user to add recoverable custom data to (any?) object. Say directly into the Data tab rather than through the record format process.

I think 1 and 3 are most useful, but others may want the fancy PIOs.

GWS example is a good one for advanced data - tap depth, drill size & depth, etc added to length, head style, diam and thread spec. Any fastener PIO would end up with a huge configuration dialog, like doors or walls or stairs. Without having it to examine, I cannot tell if such a PIO would be really useful or efficient. It might be really great, or there may be a diminishing return if the object data sets get too extensive.

Rambling here, sorry.

-B

[AndiACD]

Rambling is good Ben. Get's the point accross!

Both you and Guy have a point and so does Pat, so, do you aim for a compromise and leave stuff out or a "Whole Hog" wonder and clutter things up?

The concept is great, more info you can grab in one shot without copying and pasting each individual box one by one to see what each item really is and it also needs to be streamlined & clean enough not to slow everything down to a grinding halt(y'know, background processes and all that).

i think it would be a great deal of help, a real time saver, but then so would proper 3D dimensioning.

Ooooops!

[GWS]

...but then so would proper 3D dimensioning.

Yes it would!

[AndiACD]

Couldn't resist it.

[islandmon]

OIP Dump:

Can you explain more about why you want this, how you want it to work and what you need it to do?

My script to create a worksheet showing all of the fields of a PIO is a good start to doing this. I just am having a hard time wrapping my head around what this is good for and how it should work.{/quote]

Indeed, your excellent script dumps the OIP info into a Worksheet container ... which is really great !

Nevertheless, there are many times when a simple TextContainer is all that is necessary to produce a Call-out or Notation ... simply editing the text fields cuts out the middle-man ; )

Using Worksheets to harvest the OIP data just adds one more layer of complexity.

My reasoning is that basic functionality... just like with a Browser should be

WYSIWYCG ... What You See is What You Can Grab ... imagine the hassle factor of having to run a special worksheet script every time you need to copy & paste some snip-it of text from this forum into your postings.

[islandmon]

Pat, one other salient point ...

VW is just NOT real-world friendly ... these days everyone works with multiple apps... simultaneously ... including persistent web & email.

The OIP Dumb would be one small step toward closing the gap.

Copy info from the OIP and paste it into an email ... editing as required.

How hard is that ?

[Pat Stanford]

GWS example is a good one for advanced data - tap depth, drill size & depth, etc added to length, head style, diam and thread spec. Any fastener PIO would end up with a huge configuration dialog, like doors or walls or stairs. Without having it to examine, I cannot tell if such a PIO would be really useful or efficient. It might be really great, or there may be a diminishing return if the object data sets get too extensive.

Rambling here, sorry.

-B

I think we can come up with something for the fasteners, but do you always use the exact same tape depth, drill size, etc. for a type of fastener? It seems to me that that is not a property of the fastener, rather there should be a separate call out (or at least record) for the hole/drill/tap information rather than being part of the fastener.

[Pat Stanford]

The concept is great, more info you can grab in one shot without copying and pasting each individual box one by one to see what each item really is and it also needs to be streamlined & clean enough not to slow everything down to a grinding halt(y'know, background processes and all that).

i think it would be a great deal of help, a real time saver, but then so would proper 3D dimensioning.

Ooooops!

Does the link need to be live? Or could it just be grabbed when you place the callout and then be static text. You would need to remember to change/replace the callout when you change the object.

Take a look at the ID tool and how it works with doors and windows. Except for the automatic updating (which I don't yet know how to do), something like that is what I am thinking.

[Pat Stanford]

Indeed, your excellent script dumps the OIP info into a Worksheet container ... which is really great !

Nevertheless, there are many times when a simple TextContainer is all that is necessary to produce a Call-out or Notation ... simply editing the text fields cuts out the middle-man ; )

Using Worksheets to harvest the OIP data just adds one more layer of complexity.

My reasoning is that basic functionality... just like with a Browser should be

WYSIWYCG ... What You See is What You Can Grab ... imagine the hassle factor of having to run a special worksheet script every time you need to copy & paste some snip-it of text from this forum into your postings.

The worksheet has nothing to do with harvesting the data. It is just a convenient (read less work for me) user interface to get that much data into a persistant format in a scrollable window.

The real data is coming in as pure Vectorscript strings. That data can be put anywhere you would like.

Let's see if we can some to a consensus as to what a "technology demonstrator" of this needs to do and I will try to find time to do a rough draft.

I would like input from all of you on this so let's discuss.

[Pat Stanford]

Pat, one other salient point ...

VW is just NOT real-world friendly ... these days everyone works with multiple apps... simultaneously ... including persistent web & email.

The OIP Dumb would be one small step toward closing the gap.

Copy info from the OIP and paste it into an email ... editing as required.

How hard is that ?

Does it need to be formatted? In the same order as in the OIP? If so then it might be very hard as I am not certain I can get the OIP filed order in Vectorscript. If it can be just a list of string and number fields and you get to choose which ones you want then we can probably come up with something. But I am not certain right now how to get it to the clipboard. I would need to try some things and see what works.

[Benson Shaw]

I think we can come up with something for the fasteners, but do you always use the exact same tape depth, drill size, etc. for a type of fastener? It seems to me that that is not a property of the fastener, rather there should be a separate call out (or at least record) for the hole/drill/tap information rather than being part of the fastener.

Taps and hole sizes are conventional for each diameter/gauge of fastener, but depth would vary in a range according to situation. These conditions are often called out, but do not necessarily need to be attached as fastener data - although they could be configurable in that fictional massive fastener PIO.

In a really elaborate shop drawing or other detail, each fastener might have a call out with all that info and more. If there are lots of fasteners, but only a few variations, it's better to make a chart, for which VW is pretty well equipped. But many callout situations would benefit from object data placed in a text box.

Side issue:

I often include a line in the call out for manufacturer, fab shop, vendor, etc. This is not just for fasteners, but many types of objects - paint, glass, formed steel, welds, resins, etc. The mfg and vendor items in the callout are annotated in a separate schedule(s), usually on a separate sheet(s), with contact info for all the mfgs and vendors cited in the drawing set. Adding all that contact info into the callout would crowd the drawing and make the callout into a reading project.

This points out the need for normal text editing capability - Get the OIP Dump into a text box, then delete, rearrange as desired. Dupe and move to other similar fasteners.

-B

[Ozzie]

This is an interesting thread and hopefully it can be really productive

VW is just NOT real-world friendly ... these days everyone works with multiple apps... simultaneously ... including persistent web & email.

At the risk of being a bore and I know this is a little of on a tangent

Different people use VW for very different tasks

As an arborist I use Ozcad?s Existing Tree Tool ? it and it is beyond beyond as a functioning tool for my purpose ? love it so with my work feel really indebted to them

Just this week because here in OZ we have had a new Australian Standard for Arboricultural Reports and local governments like arborists to jump through the circus hoop on fire I was entering some ?Definitions? into VW using the Notes Database to store these definitions for later use

Attached is a piccy

As I was doing this I was aware because sometimes I use MS Word for a Tree Report and sometimes VW these new definitions I needed in Word also ? but how can that be done easily?

How could I store them somewhere, anywhere help me ? sob sob - so that I can keep them there, update them there and use them in both apps?

I know this is quite different in a sense to what is being discussed but relevant to Islandmon?s quote above

VW has great database and other functionality but wouldn?t it be good to copy and paste out of or into VW formatted lists, text etc

And I mean formatted

Today we really need that and it must be seamless and easy

[AndiACD]

Does the link need to be live? Or could it just be grabbed when you place the callout and then be static text. You would need to remember to change/replace the callout when you change the object.

Take a look at the ID tool and how it works with doors and windows. Except for the automatic updating (which I don't yet know how to do), something like that is what I am thinking.

Yep, i think that would get a lot closer to a practical solution Pat. Certainly better than the current situation. Don't know if it's enough for the rest, maybe not perfect for everyone, but very usable.

Big Oaks and little Acorns . . .