Starting out, Vectorworks advice please.

[Ozzie]

As for ArchiCAD exports

it is probably impossible, too hard or there is no will to achieve it

Given both VW and ArchiCAD are owned by the same parent company

File swapping please!!

Dream on

[Kizza]

Anyone specialise in kitchen/bathroom renovations using VW? How do you go about creating a library of kitchen cabinetry (casework)? Or should I say whats the best way to go about it? The base cabinet option under furnishings allows a fair bit of flexibility in creating a cabinet quickly but can the resulting cabinet be saved as a preset/object/symbol so that I can quickly reuse it?

[mike m oz]

Any PIO object can be turned into a symbol (Modify menu) thus saving that PIO state and making it available for easy reuse. The symbol insertion options can be set so the symbols are inserted as symbols or as PIO objects.

An example of where this has been done is the Fittings-Cupboards Kitchen-Metric.vwx library file in the Objects-Building Architecture and Interior library folder. If you look at the symbol resources in that file you will see the 'Cab Countertop' symbol has its name in red. 'Red object' symbols revert to PIO objects once placed in the drawing. Black object symbols remain as symbols when placed in the drawing.

You could also model your own elements and then turn them into Hybrid Symbols. For more information on symbols have a look at that section in Help. You will find it in the section Using Vectorworks Resources

Edited May 8, 2010 by mike m oz

[Kevin McAllister]

Mike,

Having recently built a library of theatre related stuff, I would like to point out something I discovered. Its not actually true that any PIO object can be made into a useable red symbol. If the PIO is a path object type of PIO, it will always want you to draw a new path if its inserted as a PIO (red symbol) instead of retaining its saved shape.

It was something of an unexpected discovery on my part.

Cheers,

Kevin

[mike m oz]

Kevin you are correct. Thanks for posting that clarification.

[Robert Anderson]

Kevin, Mike, the default behavior of "red symbols" based on path objects is as you describe. If you want to retain the shape of your path object-symbol, just group it before making it a sym. Then, later, if you want to reshape, just ungroup. Not too complicated.

[Kizza]

I'm into my final week with my Vectorworks fully functional trial period.

I'm struggling a bit trying to get my head around layers, classes and a few other minor issues im having.

I get that Levels = Layers

I get Model Categories = Classes

Materials = ????

In Revit I can create a material, assign a cut and fill pattern as well as line weights to it and apply that material to any object I create.

In VW I create a extruded polygon (kitchen), assign it Z height as well as an extrusion height. How can I apply a material to this extrusion, say I want to give it a timber finish? Or does vectorworks control this attribute as a fill?

Maybe VW Fill = Revit Material?

Also, using the above example, is it possible to change or edit the extrusion height? This doesn't appear to be possible in the OIP.

Also, two features I immediately miss and maybe there are workarounds from experienced VW users:

Temporary Dimensions ( i really miss this)

Reference Planes

Maybe I should start a new thread for this but I'm getting close now to making my eval of VW.

i appreciate all assistance to date.

[mike m oz]

I'm struggling a bit trying to get my head around layers, classes and a few other minor issues im having.

I get that Levels = Layers

I get Model Categories = Classes

Materials = ????

In Revit I can create a material, assign a cut and fill pattern as well as line weights to it and apply that material to any object I create.

In VW I create a extruded polygon (kitchen), assign it Z height as well as an extrusion height. How can I apply a material to this extrusion, say I want to give it a timber finish? Or does vectorworks control this attribute as a fill?

Maybe VW Fill = Revit Material?

Layers are the where. eg. storeys (or levels) of a building

Classes are the what. eg. material or type of object.

Classes have graphic attributes which define the pen and fill. There is also a texture parameter where a texture can be applied which will show in Renderworks and OpenGL renders. Note:

- You must have Renderworks for textures to show.

- Only filled objects will texture render.

Class attributes can be over ridden on the Attributes palette and textures can be applied directly to objects by dragging them from the Resource Browser and dropping them onto objects in the drawing. Some parametric objects have multiple Classes or parts and more control over how these render and with what texture is done via the Render tab on the OIP (Object Info Palette).

Also, using the above example, is it possible to change or edit the extrusion height? This doesn't appear to be possible in the OIP.

You can change the height of an extrusion on the OIP. When an extruded object is selected you will see the parameters of:

- Delta X = its overall extent in the X direction.

- Delta Y = its overall extent in the Y direction.

- Extr. = the extent of the extrusion (this is the parameter you modify to change it).

- Bot. Z = the height from the Design Layer's base plane to the lowest point on the underside of the extruded object.

Also, two features I immediately miss and maybe there are workarounds from experienced VW users:

Temporary Dimensions ( i really miss this)

Reference Planes

I'm not totally sure what you mean by temporary dimensions but if you mean dimensions that appear showing where a door or window is in a wall in relation to other points in the wall when you are moving it then no Vw does not have this yet.

I'm not exactly sure what Reference Planes are, but I suspect that Vw's Working Planes provide a similar functionality. Have a look at the section titled Using Working Planes in Help.

Many of these aspects are explained better in the Video Library movies and Video Tech Tips: http://www.nemetschek.net/library/index.php

You should also check out Archoncad's You Tube movies: http://www.youtube.com/user/archoncad

Downloading and exploring the BIM projects may also help you better understand Vectorworks' conceptual framework: http://www.nemetschek.net/bim/projects.php

Edited May 9, 2010 by mike m oz

[mike m oz]

Kizza I forgot to mention that you can also change extrusions on screen:

- In Top/Plan and Elevation views you can stretch them via their handles.

- In 3D views (eg. isometric views) you can move the top and bottom surfaces of the extrusion in or out using the 3D Reshape tool.

In the latter you tab into the Heads Up Display and enter the new extrusion height you want.

[Kizza]

Wow, what a response, thank you!!

Layers are the where. eg. storeys (or levels) of a building

Yep I understand that.

Classes are the what. eg. material or type of object.

So if I understand correctly in VW the material (in Revit a material is a set of fill and texture attributes which you can apply to an object) is actually an attribute of the class.

- You must have Renderworks for textures to show.

I have Renderworks as part of my trial.

Some parametric objects have multiple Classes or parts and more control over how these render and with what texture is done via the Render tab on the OIP (Object Info Palette).

I understand.

I'm not totally sure what you mean by temporary dimensions but if you mean dimensions that appear showing where a door or window is in a wall in relation to other points in the wall when you are moving it then no Vw does not have this yet.

Yes thats exactly what I mean. Hopefully in 2011

I'm not exactly sure what Reference Planes are, but I suspect that Vw's Working Planes provide a similar functionality. Have a look at the section titled Using Working Planes in Help.

Reference planes are essentially guidelines that you can snap to, copy, offset.

Forgot to ask this in my previous post.

I understand Archicad is probably a more appropriate competitor to Revit than VW.

I understand that Vectorworks may not have the same level of functionality as Archicad. Those like me consider Vectorworks based on our needs.

Where does Allplan fit into the product line? I mean it looks to me that VW and AllPlan are competitors to each other under the same company. Which leads me to wonder: if thats the case which one will get the most development from Nemetschek?

[mike m oz]

So if I understand correctly in VW the material (in Revit a material is a set of fill and texture attributes which you can apply to an object) is actually an attribute of the class.

In Vw the appearance can be controlled by the Class graphic attributes or they can be set from the Attributes palette.

Forgot to ask this in my previous post.

I understand Archicad is probably a more appropriate competitor to Revit than VW.

I understand that Vectorworks may not have the same level of functionality as Archicad. Those like me consider Vectorworks based on our needs.

Where does Allplan fit into the product line? I mean it looks to me that VW and AllPlan are competitors to each other under the same company. Which leads me to wonder: if thats the case which one will get the most development from Nemetschek?

All programs have their plusses and minuses and there is no program out there that is the perfect solution. Vectorworks is unique in that it has a duality that doesn't exist in the other programs. Users can choose to model in 3D or draw in 2D or mix both for their projects. This makes it a very versatile program that can be used in many ways. The downside of this is that there is no single right way to use the program and as a result some new users are uncertain how they should actually use the program in different contexts. Over time this sorts itself out.

[Robert Anderson]

I'm not totally sure what you mean by temporary dimensions but if you mean dimensions that appear showing where a door or window is in a wall in relation to other points in the wall when you are moving it then no Vw does not have this yet.

Actually, Vectorworks 2010 does have a functional equivalent to this. Try out the "Set Position" button in the Object Info palette for objects inserted in walls. Less "temporary", but an alternative, is the actual dimension. If you draw an associated dimension (e.g. for a window and the end of a wall), you can double-click the dimension and change it and the window will change position in the wall.

[Kizza]

Nice, set position for a door or window allows a similar functionality as temp dims.

Can it be done with walls though? Say I want to move the wall in attached pic to 2500mm? I double click on the dimension which allows me to change the dimension but wall doesn't move with it. Obviously the wall is constrained somehow....

[J Lucas]

Try setting the insertion points of the dimensions to the end points of the walls and then change the dimension.

[Kizza]

Sorry didn't work

[RubenH]

I think this is the way. Remember to turn associate dimensions in document preferences.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Mr. Gog

[Kizza]

The dimensioning works fine with windows and doors, its repositioning a wall once its been inserted as per my example that I want to find out.

[propstuff]

when you place the dimension, snap it to the end or corner points of the walls, not somewhere in the middle.

If it has associated properly you will see a little box at each insertion point

[Lloyd NB]

Hi Mr Gog, I really appreciate that you draw attention to the idea of layers as "containers" and I much better understand where they start and stop now - as containers. I'm getting started again with VW 2010 after a long setback and this clears up where I left off months ago. It is so clear now the reasoning. I also used Revit and the levels were quite flexible and graphically easy to understand. This does seem maybe a better way.

I'm going to continue on with the introductions and tutorials but I am curious right now whether I can put a "container" inside a "container" as a concept - which would allow - say - a suspended partial floor or element which could be turned off visually independent of the container it is in?

Thanks.

[mike m oz]

Lloyd if you use a unique Class for your floors you can turn it off simply by making that Class invisible. Ditto for ceilings or any other object for that matter.

If you do have all of your building storey model parts in the one Design Layer (ie. space container) then you will need to pay attention to the stacking order in the 2D Top/Plan View. Use the Send command on the Modify menu to get the visual stacking order correct.

[RubenH]

Lloyd NB:

That's why I consider they as containers!

You can have one inside the other or across the others!

[Lloyd NB]

Yes, Thanks both of you. I really like the idea of these as containers, though it is just in my head that it is a little more manageable. :-) And classes add to the flex too. Cool. Many thanks!