Vectorworks v Revit

[Bob Holtzmann]

It seems that Jerry Laiserin has refrained from jumping onto the ArchiCad band wagon. And to risk mixing metaphors, the grass always looks greener on the other side....

[J Lucas]

As a design oriented architect, who also produces construction drawings, my experience, with VW Architect, jibes with what Mr Laiserin has to say.

[Christiaan]

It pains me to see anyone putting "flexibility" above all other considerations in design. And if his views are any reflection on NNA's position it doesn't bode well.

? why should [typical design] firms choose ? "BIM-only" software ? if the "price" includes sacrificing on every project the geometric flexibility to design any form in a true solid modeler ? VWA allows designers to focus on design issues all the time ?

This is the bit I take particular issue with. Flexibility does not magically allow one to "focus on design," especially when it means the designer spends half their time in computer drudgery manually modelling and editing standard building objects, because capable building modelling tools and concepts have been sacrificed at the alter of flexibility.

A better question to ask is, why, in 2010, can a typical design firm still not go out and choose a BIM software package that let's them focus on design by providing a balance between freeform modelling and building modelling?

What?s important to designers is, or should be, the flexibility to represent anything and to attach any data to those representations.

What's important to designers and any creator is that their tools become an extension of themselves and get out of the way.

P.S. what's all that "Note to readers" about? You can't prescribe how people link to you on the world wide web and you certainly can't make up your own laws about 'fair use.'

[Christiaan]

It seems that Jerry Laiserin has refrained from jumping onto the ArchiCad band wagon.

http://www.laiserin.com/features/issue25/feature01.pdf

[VincentCuclair]

3D freeform modelling,

http://www.gscne.com/new/products/archicadaddons/archiforma.htm

keyboard short-cuts,

http://www.graphisoft.com/ftp/publishing/ac12_help_INT/Files/wwhelp/wwhimpl/js/html/wwhelp.htm

[VincentCuclair]

It pains me to see anyone putting "flexibility" above all other considerations in design. And if his views are any reflection on NNA's position it doesn't bode well.

I know we think very differently about this but to be honest I think this is (a strength) a factor that puts VW in it's own catagory, if it didn't have this 'flexibility' it would be 'just' another ArchiCAD or a Revit.........

[Ozzie]

Exactly - great point

just get on with it and use the tool of choice today

if it does not work switch to something that does

try not to complain too much

or think your influence is greater than in reality it really is

next year or whenever a new release of VW or ArchiCAD or Revit or whatever will arrive and potentially the year after and after

or perhaps Apple will produce the magic cad app

who knows

just get on with it today

[Christiaan]

... I think this is (a strength) a factor that puts VW in it's own catagory, if it didn't have this 'flexibility' it would be 'just' another ArchiCAD or a Revit.........

Vincent, you seem to have an urge to take my nuanced comments and turn them into something black and white.

It's not the "having it" that is the problem, as I have repeatedly stated. The problem is that ?flexibility? (i.e. freeform modelling) is advanced as the answer to problems that should be dealt with by interactive building modelling tools and concepts. There is no reason why this need compromise or eliminate freeform modelling capabilities.

[Christiaan]

just get on with it and use the tool of choice today

if it does not work switch to something that does

No. I have no interest in this fantastical view of economics at all. The reality is people don't go switching willy-nilly expensive tools that they have much time and money invested in. The reality is, if you don't ask you don't get.

[VincentCuclair]

The problem is that ?flexibility? (i.e. freeform modelling) is advanced as the answer to problems that should be dealt with by interactive building modelling tools and concepts. There is no reason why this need compromise or eliminate freeform modelling capabilities.

That could be partly true, I can't speak for those that actually say this, but I think it is a case of priorities, I think that they concentrate the resources they have mainly on developing within this flexibility (because it is not only the freeform part but also the workflow etc. that encompass this flexibility.) instaed of on the interactive building modelling part, and therefor market this.

I think they strive to incorporate the rest too but the resources are surely limited and I'm guessing that is what they mean most of all and market as the strength of VW.

[Christiaan]

That's why I say the price should go up.

[Ozzie]

No. I have no interest in this fantastical view of economics at all

to say - just get on with it and use the tool of choice today

if it does not work switch to something that does

is not at all what you say - a fantastical view of economics

it is reality

The reality is people don't go switching willy-nilly expensive tools that they have much time and money invested in

I do not see VW as being at all expensive

very obviously you have by choice driven your team in the direction you have arrived at and the expense and inconvenience of change is perhaps percieved as being too high

that is the real point

The reality is, if you don't ask you don't get

I agree but wonder here if you have that much influence

Face it - there are many others here who just seem to get on with it

That's why I say the price should go up

one of the best points you make

or at least to help you and others like you VW Architect

I know if VW Landmark had more advanced features particularly better worksheet functions, site modelling tools, 3D integration and Renderworks was improved I would happily pay much more for the product

I wonder also if NNA should find a way to gain more feedback from their users - it seems they are trying to do that

Edited March 12, 2010 by Ozzie