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ar.himanshu

Revit or Vectorworks?

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Dear Friends,

This is my first post on this forum, I am an architect from India.

I had read a lot on this forum in last 1 month.

Actually, I wanna a know about several BIM platforms and then go for one which can suite me...

I know abour revit & Archicad, both can do basic things very well, but when you try to do something odd, it just sucks you. I don't like ArchiCAD's GDL system for new custom parametric objects, An architect just can't do it. While Revit takes the hell out of me in it's Over systematic (also very mechanical) workflow, you have to learn more of software system then your design. Both are not very good in only 2D work.

I wanna discuss here, Which one I should go for Revit 2010 or Vectorworks 2010?

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Once I attended presentation of Revit after having worked for a while with VW. My first thought at beginning was - is this Revit or VectorWorks? Because what I saw was very similar to VW. With each of them you gonna have your head aches.

The question you should consider is about your options with knowledge of one or another in job market - how many vacancies require Revit and how many VW in your area?

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Which one I should go for Revit 2010 or Vectorworks 2010?

I'd go for ArchiCAD 14 or Vectorworks 2012.

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ar.himanshu, you seem to know what is important to you, and you seem to understand Revit and Archicad pretty well. You say:

I know abour revit & Archicad, both can do basic things very well, but when you try to do something odd, it just sucks you. I don't like ArchiCAD's GDL system for new custom parametric objects, An architect just can't do it. While Revit takes the hell out of me in it's Over systematic (also very mechanical) workflow, you have to learn more of software system then your design. Both are not very good in only 2D work.

Vectorworks will give you design freedom (familiar open-ended geometric workflow) and versatility (design anything; design well in 2D). Vectorworks also will give you BIM tools, but it will not force a BIM workflow upon you. This you must provide. It is both the legacy and the intent of Vectorworks to be first and foremost a designer's tool. People who design love Vectorworks, because it provides design tools and "gets out of the way". In the world of BIM, however, people have come to expect a more domineering style of software workflow.

Vectorworks' approach is looser. Although you can expect to see more structuring of the workflow for the BIM user as we move onward, it will probably always be optional for the user. But the advantage is, in Vectorworks, if you can model it, you can make it a BIM model, simply by attaching the appropriate BIM (i.e. IFC) data set. And this is true today.

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I do not know Rivit, but I do know that Vectorworks Architect w/ Renderworks 2010 is a very powerful and flexible 3D modeling, rendering, and drafting tool. I use it just about every day and, although occasionally frustrated, I have been able to use it to efficiently and effectively design, model, render, and document everything I have dreamed up so far. Also the tech service is very helpful and responsive.

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Although you can expect to see more structuring of the workflow for the BIM user as we move onward

This is very encouraging to hear.

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Lately I've been working on a workflow between Vectorworks and Revit, for more creative versatility.

Since 3D modeling is much easier in Vw, I can export DWG, and import into Revit. But the problem is, Revit only edits things made in Revit. It cannot edit imported DWG, SKP, or 3DS.

Revit 2010 does not even save to earlier Revit versions - so it's not exactly the poster child of versatility.

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This week I met two architects who still use pencil and paper -- I doubt the revolution will be wide and swift. There are pockets of independents who are happy with whatever tools get the job done. The Autodesk business partners are promoting a Revit-only platform, and they might have wide success in the software market, but they don't control everybody. Speaking of real world, in my area, the small architect firms who recently bought Revit succeeded in pushing themselves into bankruptcy [i got this from a local Autodesk reseller].

Edited by Bob-H

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Chris, you said:

Revit has already buried IFC

Tell that to

  • Senatti Properties (Finland);
  • Statsbygg (Norway);
  • General Services Administration (USA);
  • AIA (USA);
  • BuildingSMART International*;

and a host of other agencies worldwide, all of whom have either required or endorsed open-standards BIM (read: IFC) and/or whom are working actively (investing real world 2010 dollars, today, right now) on IFC development. It just might be possible that they are doing that for show or for political correctness, but I doubt it, in these troubled times. These agencies are either placing bets or hedging bets (take your choice), but in my limited experience (I'm not a gambler, except on myself) you're not allowed by your bookie to do either if the game is over.

So tell them, Chris. And when you've told them and convinced them that this is the case, then we can talk about this further. Until then, I'm going to keep on believing that in the BIM ballgame, we're in the bottom of the second.

I'm serious, Chris. I won't carry on one of these long debates until you've told all these agencies. So get to work! :)

(*Disclaimer: I sit on the board of BuildingSMART US)

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Vectorworks also will give you BIM tools, but it will not force a BIM workflow upon you. This you must provide. It is both the legacy and the intent of Vectorworks to be first and foremost a designer's tool.

This explains a lot Robert.....perhaps it's just this that makes me like VW so much and at the moment bugs me in ArchiCAD. Ofcourse there are pros and cons to both ;)..........is it so in Revit? that there is a similar forced workflow as there is in ArchiCAD?

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The trick is is to provide a strongly structured workflow while allowing users to opt out into more control/flexibility. VW gets this wrong at the moment by providing a completely unstructured workflow leaving the user to instead implement and manage their own.

ArchiCAD gets it wrong by not providing the opt out into more control/flexibility (Revit is worse from what people tell me).

The first one to get this right will probably get our money going forward, with VW having the advantage of already being the software we use.

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Hey Guys,

Here, as per our local working system...

The main thing I required is..... Integrated workflow (with other rendering programme and structural programme), Bidirectional association with all views, ease of use (for me & for CAD technician), as about 95% people over uses AutoCAD and if I go for VW, I have to teach it to my employees.

There is no Authorised dealer of VW in my region either.

does VW have all this? with compare to other BIM package?

and please somebody please explain me about IFC dataset... and how it is useful? (as I had never used it for Revit or ArchicAD)

Edited by ar.himanshu

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Vectorworks Architect or Designer can be ordered with Renderworks, an integrated rendering program. There is no direct structural calculation or energy modeling program integration.

I size structural members in an appropriate structural calculation program and model them in 3D in Vectorworks. This 3D model is the basis for producing construction drawings and details. See the BIM project examples on this website here .

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I can't tell you a lot about Vectorworks since I am new user ( I will leave that to the experts here) but I can tell you a lot about Revit since I have been working the program for the last 4 years. The downside to Revit is that it isn't flexable at all. All the work that you do has to be done in a plan or elevation view. It's very hard to model in the 3D environment. They made some improvements with the new massing interface but at the same time took away some of the best features of the old interface, so in my opinion it's still have baked. Revit family/type system allows you to easily create simple element with many variations quickly, but as soon as you want to create something more complex it starts to become a pain in the rear. Some of the up sides is it's ability to manage a set of documents, sheet creation, live sections/elevations, the ability to link to 2d details to a section mark, automatically manage and schedule revisions. All things if I am not mistaken you can do in Vectorworks.

Edited by djnelson75

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Have a look at this web site for some info.

http://www.aecbytes.com/reviews.html

Also with ArchiCAD and Cinema4D you have a powerful combination. From what I've seen, with the plug-in between the 2 programs you can create custom objects in Cinema4D and bring into ArchiCAD seamlessly. Also Cinema4D has better rendering capabilities than anything VW has to offer. This combination would make the weak points in ArchiCAD less of an issue.

Me thinks anyway, :)

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