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JohnS

SWEETS IS ONLY SUPPORTING BIM FOR REVIT

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Yes. Partners are expected to be able to dimension and schedule. You have very clearly told that you can't.

"Partnering" was the name of the AIA's previous attempt to shift the sort of liability only big firms can absorb to the architect.

My E&O carrier doesn't cover me for contractual obligations beyond a traditional standard of care.

I represent my level of documentation as "better" at my sole risk.

There are probably more court jurisdictions within 100 miles of me than there are in all of Finland.

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What can one say? A decent BIM tool knows what eg. a door is like to the minute detail. The NNA door does not, but it is an Integrated Product by NNA and totally useless.

Doesn't matter if the software knows about the door.

Mira los planos!

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Yes. Partners are expected to be able to dimension and schedule. You have very clearly told that you can't.

"Partnering" was the name of the AIA's previous attempt to shift the sort of liability only big firms can absorb to the architect.

My E&O carrier doesn't cover me for contractual obligations beyond a traditional standard of care.

I represent my level of documentation as "better" at my sole risk.

There are probably more court jurisdictions within 100 miles of me than there are in all of Finland.

Ha ha! The U. S. of A. represents some 4 % of world's population.

Court jurisdictions? Great! Now, there's a reason for software design!

Q: Why is it that New Jersey has most of the toxic dumps in America and California most of the lawyers?

A: NJ had the first pick.

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I am not to optimistic about any kind of IFC standard being established.

One exists already.

We can't even get our measuring system standardized.

We've done that 200 years ago.

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What can one say? A decent BIM tool knows what eg. a door is like to the minute detail. The NNA door does not, but it is an Integrated Product by NNA and totally useless.

Doesn't matter if the software knows about the door.

Mira los planos!

Well: you don't know either, so fair enough.

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Ha ha! The U. S. of A. represents some 4 % of world's population.

Court jurisdictions? Great! Now, there's a reason for software design!

Q: Why is it that New Jersey has most of the toxic dumps in America and California most of the lawyers?

A: NJ had the first pick.

Llareggub was last.

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Indeed, BIM and D&B certainly aren't mutually exclusive. Integrated Project Delivery is what they call it in the U.S. I believe.

Integrated project deleivery is just today's "partnering."

It's a set of processes and contractual structures (social technology) not computer technology.

Data sharing is part of it, but it's not design build by any means.

D&B contracts wouldn't work well with BIM because much of the detailed design work is traditionally crammed in along with the build. IPD reorganises the workflow so that the detailed design work is carried out much earlier, which is complementary to BIM, while being more similar to D&B than DBB. I was wrong to conflate D&B with IPD however. They're two separate and different delivery methods.

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D&B contracts wouldn't work well with BIM because much of the detailed design work is traditionally crammed in along with the build. IPD reorganises the workflow so that the detailed design work is carried out much earlier, which is complementary to BIM, while being more similar to D&B than DBB. I was wrong to conflate D&B with IPD however. They're two separate and different delivery methods.

Au contraire. The very reason why the Llareggubian construcion industry, with generous hand-outs by the tax payer, has invested some 50 million euros in BIM-implementation, is because in D&B BIM-approach works best in this particular delivery model.

Detailed design has, in reality, little - if any - effect on the cost.

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Ha ha! The U. S. of A. represents some 4 % of world's population.

Court jurisdictions? Great! Now, there's a reason for software design!

Q: Why is it that New Jersey has most of the toxic dumps in America and California most of the lawyers?

A: NJ had the first pick.

Llareggub was last.

Llareggub is a part of the largest economy in the world: the EU. We make the rules, you obey.

Ask your god, Bill Gates, who must pay hundreds of millions of real money (euros, not USA pesos) in fines.

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Llareggub is a part of the largest economy in the world: the EU. We make the rules, you obey.

Ask your god, Bill Gates, who must pay hundreds of millions of real money (euros, not USA pesos) in fines.

I guess the whooshing sound didn't wake you up.

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D&B contracts wouldn't work well with BIM because much of the detailed design work is traditionally crammed in along with the build. IPD reorganises the workflow so that the detailed design work is carried out much earlier, which is complementary to BIM, while being more similar to D&B than DBB. I was wrong to conflate D&B with IPD however. They're two separate and different delivery methods.

Yes they're two separate methods...in many ways...one being that DB is an actual common practice and IPD is a largely theoretical construct.

Here, while IPD generally requires shared data models and DB does not necessarily, the most vast preponderance of data sharing between architect and builder occurs within the context of design build.

Here, from the builder's standpoint (aka: where all the money is) Design Build provides detailed design information much earlier in the process than traditional design-bid-build.

The real down side to Design Build is the same as with any development activity, the cost of the due diligence to determine feasibility and viability.

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Llareggub is a part of the largest economy in the world: the EU. We make the rules, you obey.

Ask your god, Bill Gates, who must pay hundreds of millions of real money (euros, not USA pesos) in fines.

I guess the whooshing sound didn't wake you up.

Which sound? Ahh, the U.S. economy sinking ever further? No, not really. Perhaps I was reading the credits of the latest version of Photoshop.

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Which sound? Ahh, the U.S. economy sinking ever further? No, not really. Perhaps I was reading the credits of the latest version of Photoshop.

Kool Aid? Wasn't Kool-Aid invented in Nebraska in the 1920s? Kool Aid, Koolaid, Kool-Aid, Kool-Ade or Fruit Smack, it's all the same thing. We hope the name of your company is making you wealthy, healthy and happy.

Cheers.

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I am going to skip all the digressions and wanted to comment of the original post about manufactures creating Revit content. If you look at most of the Revit content that you can download from say Autodesk seek, you will find that it is nothing more than a family with an imported dwg/dxf. It's not a true Revit object, and there is actually a lot of discussing on Revit forums about wether or not people posting content should have adhere to some standard. That is not to say that everyone is taking the short cut, Simpson Strong Tie is now creating true Revit content for some of their hangers.

Edited by djnelson75

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Things have taken one good turn recently -- at least in terms of policy. The AIA Board of Directors made a statement on AEC software interoperability.

http://www.nibs.org/client/assets/files/bsa/aia_interoperability_position.pdf

This is good news for software vendors such as NNA. And it also means that Revit files aren't kosher BIM documents, because they need to be opened by non-propriety software.

I, for one, do not want to re-live my slavery under the Autodesk software monopoly of the 90's. AutoCad was not user-friendly or innovative, and I do not see it happening with Revit either.

Free at last!

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Apparently, Texas Facilities doesn't give a **** about interoperability, or open standards -- going the proprietary route adds significant cost on a statewide level.

When the U.S. Government was using MS Office, they required it to be an open standard, and Microsoft complied.

Apparently, Texas Facilities is rewarding Autodesk for Revit's failure at IFC export - although they will yield to some case exceptions (hopefully).

Edited by Bob-H

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Structural and MEP engineers can use anything they want -- Autocad, Revit, whatever... I wouldn't want all of their stuff in my building base model.

My main concern or "woe" is clients (such as Texas Facilities Commission) demanding complete building model computer files in a propriety file format, so they can load it onto their computer work stations, and do all of the design work. There seems to be the makings of a violation of the Owner-Architect Agreement there..

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Hmm..Can you check FEA results for Stress, CFD and Blast? Maybe its just coincidience that Bush comes from Texas?

Either way nobody cares about your out dated views....learn to Collaborate-HTH

I can respect some provisions in software workflow for engineering analysis, but your examples suggest petro-chemical plants, which are a bit out-dated today.

About engineering collaboration -- some serious thought should be given to software workflow between Vw Architect and Revit Structural and MEP (if that's what the engineers will be using). More specifically, there is no clear method of how to set up a collaborative IFC model that works. I tried exporting an IFC model and opening it in Revit, and it crashed.

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Bob,

Could you please submit the VWX and IFC files that crashed for you in Revit? What versions of Vw and Revit were involved?

We're currently working on guidelines/prescriptions for Vw BIMs that are interoperable with Revit and Scia and Bentley, but any user input/experience, at this point, would be very useful.

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Thanks, Bob. Got it.

Looks like it is a legitimate IFC file. I am able to open it in Solibri Model Checker (our internal preference) with no reported errors. I'll send you the screen shots offline.

This bring up a good point for all Vw IFC users. Look for and download an IFC viewer to verify the IFC file after it has been created. If the viewer can open and browse the file, then any other purported IFC capable program should be able to import it. IF not, then there is a bug on the other end that needs to be resolved.

Solibri Model Viewer (PC and MAC) -

FZKViewer (PC) -

DDS-CAD Viewer (PC) -

The viewers are also invaluable to let you inspect what hasn't exported from Vw. If something didn't get exported it is because it doesn't have IFC Data attached to it, via the "IFC Data..." command. Most, if not all, PIOs shoudl export automatically, without user interaction, but custom geometry and symbols need to have IFC Data attached by the user.

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I don't know Solidworks that well, but it should not be difficult to exchange 3D files (of several formats) between it and Vectorworks (SAT, DWG, 3DS, etc.). I don't think that NNA will be left out in the cold anytime soon over lack of file interoperability.

And while AEC product web sites like Sweets and Arcat.com are adding Revit details to their product info downloads, they also include PDF and DWG formats to the list -- because product suppliers know that Autocad and Microstation users require those formats. I think that Revit file formats are included in the product catalogs because DWG files can really screw up a Revit project file if you're not careful. And PDF files don't import into Revit!

Edited by Bob-H

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