Jump to content

Bring Back the Extend Tool


keithob

Recommended Posts

I have noticed a number of people lamenting the loss of the very usefull extend tool. It seems to have been replaced in it's most impotent form with the Connect tool. This is no more usefull than using a selection handle to drag one end of a line to another. In my view, this is just a redundant tool.

The old extend tool allowed you to choose a boundary line, then very quickly extend lines to this boundary with a single click each. None of this clicking back and forth between line and boundary. No panning accross a huge drawing.

One of the responses to the "Bring Back Extent" campaign told the user to select all of the lines slated for extension, then by using the selection handle of just one line, drag them all to the boundary object. This works only if all of the lines to be extended are the exact same length, and if the boudary object is a straight line, perpendicular to the lines to be extended. If you attempt this method with lines of unequal lengths, you end up with lines that resize, and either extend past the boundary object, or don't quite reach the object.

I still have my copy of Version 8. Is there a way to copy the code for the extend tool into my version 9? It would be great to get this tool back.

Thanks.

Link to comment

In 8.5.2 go to your organize menu

go to create plug in

scroll down to the extend to line tool and select it

hit the script button and copy the entire script

Then launch 9.0.1 and go to your organize menu

go to the create plug in

hit New

Select Tool and hit OK

Name it something like "Old Extend" or something

Hit the scrip t button and paste.

Hit OK

Hit catagory and type in something you can easily recognize Like My Tools or whatever

Hit Done

Goto your workspace editor

Hit the Tools tab

Look for your folder (My tools?) on the left and add it you your workspace.

I dont think I left anything out

Anyway it works for me

Good Luck

Link to comment

This is very disappointing. I'm still using 8.5.2, and it seems I won't be upgrading until these "problems" get fixed. It's disappointing that somebody at some high position at NNA decided to eliminate this very useful tool, creating yet another "problem" to be fixed. I would love to hear any contrasting opinions -- of how eliminating the extend tool (and trim tool) have increased productivity. Doesn't sound like an improvement to me. I use it all the time. It speeds up my daily work unmentionably. I simply cannot give it up.

Link to comment

Yes, Julians tool works but you have to use the process described above. Simply copying the plug in into the 9 plugins folder wont work.I also don't know how this relates to the liscense agreement with Julian. I don't use this tool, but if you do you probably should contact him to confirm your not breaking any laws.

Good Luck

Link to comment

AFAIK, the trim tool will be brought back in version 9.5. However, at the time of my last inquery the extend tool was not slated to make another apperance. It has been replaced with the single and dual object connection tools.

Like the Trim tool, if you give us enough feedback about it we may be able to convice the powers that be to bring it back.

Matthew Giampapa

Technical Support

quote:

Originally posted by broesler:

Bring back, O bring back, O bring back my trim and extend tools to me.

Link to comment

quote:

Originally posted by Scott A. Miller:

It Worked!!!!


Scott, let's not stoop so low as to blurt such meaningless one-liners and bring disdain to these forums. SeanFlaherty, as we all know, is indeed "somebody at a high position" at NNA, and I, for one, appreciates and welcomes his involvement in these discussions.

As far as how well the new Extend and Trim tools work, I will be testing them on a colleague's VW9 next week to see them firsthand (I don't have 9).

Currently in 8.5.2, I use them as follows:

Extend

With a boundary object selected, I hit a shortcut key for Extend, hit the U key to go to "extend to selected..." (which I wish was default), zoom to the lines or endpoints of polys wherever they are, then click their nearest segment one by one in rapid succession, with each click extending them to the selected boundary object. This happens lightning quick! I wish extend objects are not limited to lines, arcs and polys. I wish walls could as easily be extended. And I wish the "extend to" object could be walls, too, not just boundary objects. Currently there are some quirks like arcs misbehaving and lines contained within a boundary object not extending both ends.

Trim

With an object selected, I hit a shortcut key for Trim, zoom to proper view, then click on the section of all the objects I want to trim. Click-click-click. Like magic. I wish those objects included walls.

So with shortcut keys for these tools, I race through trimming and extending dozens upon dozens of objects in two seconds flat. I hope 9's extend and trim is equal or better.

Link to comment

Ken,

Thanks for the info, I'll be interested to hear your feedback on the 9 changes. We had a lot of feedback from new customers of VW 8 and MiniCAD that basic line editing was more complicated than in other packages because of the number of commands, and also that common operations were spread across several tools (such as join and extend). For VW 9, we reduced the command set to a core set of more powerful tools (in our opinion) which behaved more consistently across object types. Let me or the board know what you think!

Regards,

Sean

------------------

Sean Flaherty

CTO

Nemetschek North America

flaherty@nemetschek.net

Link to comment

If the former behavior can be restored, and some effort will be made to do that, I would like to pass along a suggestion for further improvement.

In some other program (s?) the extend tool will not only extend but also draw back. The behavior would have a similar nature to the join command, where the endpoint that has to move the shortest distance moves, but that would still be a good addition to the tool kit I think.

Best,

Donald

Link to comment

Sean asked what was it about the extend tool function that was lost or not picked up by the connect/combine tool.

One key thing:

the ability to extend lines to any object (any kind, line, rectangle, circle, arc, etc.) that is off the screen. It used to be possible to do this by simply clicking on the objects we want to extend, one after the other. And only one simple click for each extension. Now we have to manually drag the line to be extended to the target line. Believe it or not, in our daily drafting chores many of us perform this operation regularly.

When the extend tool was first released (it was by the way one of the few drafting functions that autocad provided that minicad did not) most everyone I know in the mincad community went, YES!

Using the new tool for things like above that I used to be able to use the old tool for, makes me feel like I"ve had to give up a word processor for a typewriter.

Best,

Donald

Link to comment

Donald,

Doesn't the Connect tool already incorporate the behavior you mention? I think you mean if you have a line that overlaps a boundary, you want to "shorten" the line to meet the boundary. The Connect tool will either shorten or extend the line as necessary to meet the boundary.

Regards,

Sean

------------------

Sean Flaherty

CTO

Nemetschek North America

flaherty@nemetschek.net

Link to comment

After my short drafting session in 9, I must agree:

Extend

The new tool simply cannot extend several segments quickly. Dragging items one by one towards a "connect to" object is definitely NOT an improvement. It's tedious because it's common. Perhaps an additional parameter can be added (as default) for "Repeat Object Connect" with each click connecting to the selected object.

Extend and Walls

How about improving the tool so that it can extend lines, arcs, polys to walls as well? And vice versa -- combining it with the WallJoinTool so that walls can be extended to boundary objects, arcs and lines? Now THAT would be a real improvement.

Trim vs. Split

I think it's slightly better. No big complaints from me. The only problem is the default for Split by Point. I would use Split by Line more often. I know it's just one press of the U key away, but that's the same chore for several other tools, so the extra stroke gets annoying. How about letting the user change its order (for every tool that has multiple parameters) in Workspace Editor?

I can see how Split helps when trimming walls at complex Y and T intersections, but I hope wall joining gets an overhaul.

Link to comment

Sean,

I tried using the connect tool to shorten a line as we discussed and I found odd behavior.

I had an arc, say from 11 o'clock to 3 o'clock.

I had a vertical line extending well above the arc and crossing it a short distance.

When I used the connect tool to draw up the line (which would mean moving the endpoint closest to the target object) I found that the other end point (the furthest away) moved to a point of contact with the arc. I think that most of the time, moving the closest point would be most useful.

best,

Donald

Link to comment

Sean, for walls it seems most intuitive to make them feel like lines. The extended end may be capped by default and matching the contour of the boundary object or line. The exception, by default, may be for walls extending to other walls -- join them the same way as the WallJoin tool does. Uncapped walljoins, in my experience, is less common, so a separate action is required anyway. I understand curved walls and arcs may be problematic.

I should add that some of us use "wall elements" in the most unusual (or clever) ways -- not just as real walls. Their quick joining, 3D-capable, opacity, thickness durabiltiy and round end cap features make them very useful.

Sean, the biggest disappointment for the new Connect/Split tools is their general limitation to single segment editing. Either the Connect or the Split tool takes at least two clicks for each action if there is one segment to be edited, while multiple segment editing seems totally overlooked. For example, in version 8 either the Trim tool or the Trim command can be called by a separate shortcut key. If a complex predrawn polygon is the trimming object for a bunch of lines, then one or the other Trim can be called quickly and a marquee selection can pick up the trimmed pieces for deletion. In 9 they're gone. The Split tool seems to work one segment at a time, so the entire complex polygonal shape has to be traced segment by segment requiring two clicks to split at each segment as defined by the polygonal shape. And what if it has curved segments? Similar for the Connect tool.

Perhaps I am missing something?

[This message has been edited by Archken (edited 09-25-2001).]

Link to comment

Sean,

I trust you are right about shortening. I did not discover this since when I learned how the tool worked, I concluded that there was no benefit I could see over simply manually reshaping the line. (Because, although the new tool may be slightly, very slightly, faster than a manual reshape, with a manual reshape I can use the cursor which is typically already selected. If I go an select the new tool, it eats up the time savings).

Really, the main issue, as others have pointed out, is the loss of the abilty to extend a line to an object with a single click.

Best,

Donald

Link to comment

quote:

Originally posted by Archken:

Sean, the biggest disappointment for the new Connect/Split tools is their general limitation to
single segment editing.
Either the Connect or the Split tool takes at least two clicks for each action if there is one segment to be edited, while multiple segment editing seems totally overlooked. For example, in version 8 either the Trim tool or the Trim command can be called by a separate shortcut key. If a complex
predrawn
polygon is the trimming object for a bunch of lines, then one or the other Trim can be called quickly and a marquee selection can pick up the trimmed pieces for deletion. In 9 they're gone. The Split tool seems to work one segment at a time, so the entire complex polygonal shape has to be traced segment by segment requiring two clicks to split at each segment as defined by the polygonal shape. And what if it has curved segments? Similar for the Connect tool.

Perhaps I am missing something?


Ken,

I think you've seen the notes that we'll be re-introducing the Trim tool in 9.5. Are you also aware that the split has a "point" mode that lets you click once and split at that point? The "line" mode also splits multiple objects.

With the Connect tool I think you miss many of the efficiencies that have been added. For example, look at a case with two intersecting segments (or nearly intersecting segments) in VW 8. If you wan to "clean-up" the intersection, you need to choose from a variety of tools and commands (trim, extend, join, trim (not to be confused with the other trim), and selection) based on the specific geometry. Now you can use the connect tool to handle all cases, including those where the segment is part of an open path (poly, polyline, 3D poly, NURBS curve).

Regards,

Sean

------------------

Sean Flaherty

CTO

Nemetschek North America

flaherty@nemetschek.net

Link to comment

Donald,

Are you aware that the location of your click makes a difference? In a crossing case, you can keep either segment so depending on if you click on the short end or the long end will make a difference as to how it is extended (think of a cross rather than a short overlap). I couldn't duplicate the results that you mentioned with this in mind.

Regards,

Sean

------------------

Sean Flaherty

CTO

Nemetschek North America

flaherty@nemetschek.net

Link to comment

Yes, I did notice the earlier reply that the Trim tool will come back in 9.5. I don't know why I'm still harping it. I've also tried using the Split-by-Point mode at a nonorthogonal intersection. It doesn't seem consistent at first -- perhaps I just have to get used to it.

I know there are other improvements in the Connect tool. Other users are probably in better position to report how effective they are in actual use. So far it seems only the lack of multiple segment editing is the major shortcoming in both the Connect and Split tools.

Sean, my general opinion is that production speed and accuracy is improved with quicker access to consistent tools, not so much the logical combining of the intended functions of different tools. The new Option modifier key will definitely help. There always seems to be some peculiarly useful function of the older tools that get entirely eliminated in a new version.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...