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Class/Instrument Insertion Question


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That's how all symbols behave. (If I understand your question correctly.)

The symbol is in a class.

The components of the symbol can be in the same or any other class(es).

This gives you a lot of flexibility controlling the graphic attributes and visibility of symbols and their components.

If you want to change the class of any components of a symbol, you have to edit the symbol, and change it there.

hth

michaelk

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Symbols (and groups) are container objects. If the symbol has a class (look in the Object Info Palette) and you have a different class active and you make that class invisible, then everything inside that symbol should disappear, no matter what class the actual objects are in.

To phrase it a different way, if the container is in an invisible class, then all of the objects inside the container are also invisible.

Sometimes this works to your advantage (like for what you are trying to do now) and sometime it works against you (like when you make all the classes invisible and step through them to see where something is and you can't find it because you have to have two class (the container and the object) both visible at the same time.)

If you are seeing something different, then something is wrong.

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hello Geoff;

it sounds as if your instrument symbols are comprised of multiple classes. when you're inserting them, not all of the 2d components of each symbol are acquiring the active class upon insertion. have you considered inserting each set of symbols on a different layer instead? each layer can have any number of classes on it. would that be an option?

hth,

shelley

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Geoff-

I'd agree with Shelley that your root symbols are likely inadvertently comprised of multiple classes.

An easy fix if that is the issue rather than editing/checking each symbol try this:

Create a new class...i.e 'lighting instruments'

Group all your lighting symbols together in one folder and use the Tools/Utilities/Change Symbol Atts to make all your root symbols now in the 'lighting instruments' class. Hopefully, that should solve the problem of symbols being comprised of different classes.

Tmonson

Edited by Tmonson
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Tmonson,

Your suggestion works and gets my current drawing to where I want it to be. I still don't understand why a symbol won't inherit the current class on insert. Why should a symbol maintain a class structure when the whole point of classes is to define things as you draw? What am I missing and not understanding?

Thanks,

Geoff

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A little late to this thread. Here's the deal. When you create a symbol definition that symbol definition will be placed in a class. Every time the symbol is placed the symbol definitions class will be assigned to the instance, period. This keeps chairs that are symbols in the chair class always being chairs and not assigned to, for examaple, the table class that was used just before the chair symbol was made active. If you want a chair assigned to the table class you have to make a sym def that uses that class. While this reasoning makes a certain amount of sense in a simple world it pretty much sucks. Suppose you want to assign the chairs to the living room class so you can count them. Although I'm a lighting designer I used the furniture example on purpose to show that it is not just entretainment that would like this behavior changed. For now I use both layers and classes to control groups of visibility. I put the rep plot or shared fixtures on one layer, each ballet on its own layer. I would do the same with shows.

At the local user group we all want to be able to insert different instances of the same symbol definition with different class assignments, and most of the members are architects.

Sam

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Jumping in...

Sam, I don't believe I'd agree w. you on your conclusion. Though perhaps not implemented 100% to everyone's liking, this current system is quite usable. I use different Classes within Symbols to great benefit. For example, I might have a truss Symbol that gets placed in a "Flown Truss" Class. BUT, the Symbol contains:

- A Loci Class so I can turn Loci on and off.

- "Simple" and "Complex" Classes so I can view truss as either a simple box - or in full detail.

- A couple of Classes that aid in creating entertainment rigging plots.

I can then turn all flown truss on or off - or control the appearance of the truss Symbols contained in that Class. Piece of cake...

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But Andy, everything you do would be possible if we could assign an instance of a symbol to a class different from its definition. As it is now the only way to make 26deg light used only by ballet #1 different from a 26deg light used only by ballet #2 is to put them on different layers and and use layer colors. I do that now, but I lose other color control that I would prefer to keep.

I guess one other option is to make a symbol definition for each ballet, but that's not going to happen.

Sam

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Sam -

We CAN assign an instance of a Symbol to a specific class. The Symbol simply retains it's "creation" Classes. What I think you're wanting (and what has been discussed before) is to have the ability for drawing Class attributes to be able to over-ride "creation" Class attributes. For example, regardless of "creation" Class attributes assigned in a Symbol definition, any time that Symbol is placed in Class "Sam's Super Ballet" the line color is changed to red. That what you're wanting??

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Hi Sam. The first time I saw this was in a tomcat truss symbol I got from their website. I imported it from autocad and, the first time I went to turn off the truss class, saw bits & pieces of the truss still there. what I then did was edit the symbol, select all, and select the class I want everything in. Now ungroup the selection - if you see more objects in OE than you had before, you have to make sure THEY are all selected, and put those bits & pieces all in the same class. stuff inside of groups can be different classes than the group itself, which really messed with my head till I figured it out.

once you have every bit and piece inside the symbol all on the same class, you can put that symbol on any class or layer and turn different groups of the same instrument off and on all day long.

Andy, I'm looking forward to seeing your VW class @LDI

peace,

Tim Olson

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