Free Viewer

[Ken]

The free downloadable Viewer is really lighting the fire in my pants. I'm getting all jittery with excitement and anticipation of using VW9.

However, I can't broadcast it to everybody because it cannot open my VW8 files! VW9.5 is still months away, which I hope will have seamless Y walljoins.

Sorry, I had to change the hyperlink. Don't worry, nobody will notice.

[This message has been edited by Archken (edited 09-25-2001).]

[ajs]

Yeah, what's that 'can't read V8' files foolishness about? Since 9 can read 8, and the (very large) viewer seems based on 9, and a whole lot of people are still using 8 or have files to move in that format, why can't the viewer be persuaded to read 8?

[Donald Wardlaw]

I wonder if anyone has used the new viewer and can comment on its benefits in comparison to Acrobat?

Does it handle fonts as well as Acrobat?

If I'm not mistaken, the windows version of the viewer is a 13 Mb download. Did I see that right? I find daunting the challenging of asking one of my windows using clients to download a 13 Mb file and then install the software. For some reason the windows users that hire me, get in pretty deep fast when installing software. Usually not at peace with their computer.

Most of my clients already have acrobat and we use it with excellent results. But maybe viewer will work better?

Donald

[kacey1]

The major benefit of the viewer is that it is VectorWorks. Instead of printing to PDF (which is an advantage in some situations), this allows clients, printing services etc to view VW files in their native format.

------------------

Kacey Fisher

Quality Assurance Specialist

Integrated Products Group

Nemetschek North America

[MikeB]

Also the Windows viewer is a stand alone installer. Thats why its 13 Mb, the Mac version installs over the internet. Essentially you have to down load the same amount of info (more or less) its just the Mac version installs as it downloads.

Good Luck.

[Donald Wardlaw]

Sorry if I seem to repeat myself, but how does it handle fonts? Does it embed them like Acrobat?

Donald

[Ken]

quote:

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Sorry if I seem to repeat myself, but how does it handle fonts? Does it embed them like Acrobat?

---

Actually, that is a good question. It launches like what I'd expect of VW9 (though I can't open any drawings) and shows two tiny tool palettes and a limited menu. The Text menu, however, is not included!

[MikeB]

I would assume it works like VW9. If it encounters a font the sysem dosent have it will ask for a substitution and add that to the list of font mappings in the preferences file.

To me the enherent usefulness of the viewer over acrobat is I dont have to do anything to the file. I can simply send it to my consultant/client for them to view and print as they see fit. Essentially making less work for me ;^)

[This message has been edited by MikeB (edited 08-22-2001).]

[Donald Wardlaw]

<<To me the enherent usefulness of the viewer over acrobat is I dont have to do anything to the file. I can simply send it to my consultant/client for them to view

and print as they see fit. Essentially making less work for me ;^)>>

I'm just trying to understand this. Note that Acrobat can be printed or plotted from Acrobat reader and just about everyone has it already.

Fonts are not much of an issue with Acrobat, the file will to others as it looks to me. I don't need to worry about whether they have the font or the windows version of it. If they do not have the font, and there is a substitution, then text blocks may be a differnent size in what they see and they will not have a drawing that looks exactly like mine.

Donald

[MikeB]

I was thinking about the viewer some more and two more benefits came to mind

1. If you zoom in really close to a PDF you can see it is rasterized and some detail is lost.

2. You can digitally scale a VW file in the viewer.

[Sean Flaherty]

Donald,

The viewer provides a way for people without Acrobat (which does cost money) to share drawings with others. If you have a working solution there is no need to change...but we have heard this request from many of our customers.

We don't do any special font embedding different from the way VectorWorks handles fonts. For your purposes it is the same as if the Viewer user had a full copy of VectorwWorks.

Regards,

Sean

------------------

Sean Flaherty

CTO

Nemetschek North America

flaherty@nemetschek.net

[MikeB]

Donald

I understand your point, what I'm saying is if I have a set with 50 sheets in it, I'd have to "print" 50 acrobat files to send to my consultant/client. This takes time, I'll admit not alot but over the course of a project it can add up. With my consultant/client using the viewer I dont have to do anything. Again less work for me.

I also dont worry about the fonts too much, we tend to keep our files simple, and I can easily make suggestions for substitutions that will work or simply send the consultant/client the necessary fonts. Typically these are people I will be dealing with for a long time anyway, so a little assistance helping them get set up will save me several hours in the long term.

But to each their own.

Good Luck

[Ken]

I think Viewer9 (its proper name in my opinion) is really neat. When (or if!) I upgrade to 9, I plan to include both versions of it on the same CD as my drawings for delivery! Hybrid Mac/Win format for burning CDs and the MCD extension should make cross platform viewing and printing easy! I'm excited.

For quality of the original drawing it beats PDFs handsdown, no question. It is, in fact, the original drawing. Too bad it can't read VW8 files.

How about upgrading soon to Viewer9.1 -- with the ability to read version 8 files? Or bundle it with Viewer9.5 -- a carbonized version to be released at the same time as VW9.5. Backwards compatiblity is always useful.

BTW, command-Q does not work for me. A bug?

[This message has been edited by Archken (edited 08-23-2001).]

[Jershaun]

Hi

Just wondering why the ability to export a "dwf" file hasn't been included in VectorWorks 9. This gets rid of the "version" complications and also,I could be wrong, but the DWF viewer isn't as big (file size) as the VW viewer.

Thanks.

[Guest]

For one thing, DWF is tuned for the AutoCAD look and wouldn't accurately represent what many VW drawings look like. But adding DWF support is on our wish list.

[Kiwi Ross]

BUT - with PDF files, they are one third to one quarter of the file size of a vectorworks drawing

[Ken]

Does anybody have issue with plagiarism?

We know Viewer9 will help promote VW9. Bravo for NNA. Excellent marketing.

However, non-users and future VW users, be they clients or competitors, will be able to take full advantage of color 3D models, entire sets of construction drawings, detail drawings and all sorts of symbols and scripts in there digital format. Perhaps extracting the secrets of our efficiency... perhaps ultimately nullifying our high fees.

Just something to think about.

[Hannes]

quote:

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Originally posted by Archken:

....Perhaps extracting the secrets of our efficiency...

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This brings up a Question to me.

Maybe it would be good to have the option to lock a file so that it

is not modyfieable anymore. Makes sense?

Would that be possible, maybe for VW 10?

-Hannes

[Ken]

Personally I'm not sure how to deal with this "secrets of our efficiency" issue.

Yes, I agree that VW drawings need some kind of locking feature. It's not a direct issue with Viewer, but Viewer certainly makes it an issue.

I can imagine delivering an efficient and professional VW drawing file along with Viewer9 to a resourceful client. Then the resourceful client starts to think he/she can buy the software instead of hiring the professional. Or something like that.

Good for NNA in the short term (selling more copies of VW). Silent suicide for the professional -- he/she eventually becomes obsolete, by false perception or otherwise.

Solution? Perhaps Viewer can be packaged for the distributing professional such that the main menus can be entirely deleted using something like Workspace Editor. And don't offer free download to the public except the most bare-bones version. For example, I may want to distribute Viewer without the Organize and Palettes menus and without the layer and class pulldowns (drawing would be preset before saving). I don't know.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Archken:

I can imagine delivering an efficient and professional VW drawing file along with Viewer9 to a resourceful client. Then the resourceful client starts to think he/she can buy the software

instead of hiring

the professional. Or something like that.

---

Three thoughts on this:

1) If this is really a problem, perhaps the client needs to understand better what you're really doing for them.

2) Let 'em try! One way for your clients to find out what you do for them is to let them try to do it themselves. Perhaps making that effort will help sharpen their ideas about what they want, and when they come back needing help they'll at least be better able to communicate with you.

3) If I were an architect, I'd look for clients with whom I could build a strong relationship that involves a certain amount of trust. I'm not an architect, and maybe that's a bit naive, but I think that if they take off with your drawings you ought to bill them for the work that you've done and move on to greener pastures! Who needs that?

Just thinking out loud...

[Ken]

Well, Caleb, I don't want to open this grand ol' Pandora's Box of an issue, but basically, it's not as simple as that. There are many levels to the debate of how "tools define the trade" or how "valuable" is real design and the real perception of it. And there are many different schools of thought as to what we architects really provide as a service.

Getting back to Viewer9, I think it may work just as well with only the File, Page, View, Window and Help menus showing. My recommendation is to remove the Edit, Organize and Palettes menus in their entirety. I do not know if the Layer and Class pulldown menus are visible and functioning, but they should also not be showing. This is my recommendation as a professional and as a VW user.

[Ken]

The other problem with those three thoughts, Caleb, is that they suggest a significant reduction in the VW user base that are not architects or designers: namely, the draftsmen. Draftsmen, you see, would be less necessary if only ideas are valuable. Let clients bring their own sketches in VW format! Let 'em add their own notes when you're halfway done! Retire your entire drafting staff! The extreme example is HomeDesigner and the like, available for US$9.95 in the bin next to the checkout stand in any computer store. If VW+Viewer can be one notch above that at just a few hundred dollars more, then the next significant portion of potential clients will stop seeking an architect's service -- with false expectations or otherwise. Is the argument then for the architect to climb higher and cater only towards the most sophisticated projects or to the most snotty clients? Is there any room left in that upper echelon? Is there any fresh air up there? Such is the debate.

I'm not worried for myself, but for the architecture profession. Those starting out and coming up the ranks will have to learn how to use a truly sophisticated, intelligent design and presentation software in the future. Such is the debate.

[MikeB]

Personally I don't have an issue with the viewer, or the notion that we are somehow giving something away or revealing secrets for 2 reasons.

1. In the US all building types outside of residential construction require an architects stamp. In this arena they need us. The residential market has always seemed hit and miss to me, and for every good designer there are 100 developers going for the same dollar (thats why I got out of residential). But a client who appreciates good design will know the difference.

2. We provide a service that has more to do with organization, managment, and 3 dimensional perception than simply puting lines on the virtual paper. One of our primary services is to work in the clients best interest during the construction phase, because we have the experience and expertice in construction that they need to insure they get what they are paying for.

Besides, the client who truely appreciate what we do will continue to use us. When I do freelance rendering work I charge a flat fee. The hours I spend on the project are irrelevent in the face of the understanding and talent required to produce a successful rendering. I've had a few client complain, but when they realize what is really required to produce a rendering, or a set of construction docs, or manage a construction project or whatever we do,they usually become quite appreciative. So like Caleb said, let'um try.

Lastly, we are primarily using the viewer to allow consultants to see our native files. Like most of us here, our consultants almost exclusively use Acad. Despite the improvments to the export engine, we have found it valuable to let our consultants see what we intend our drawings to look like. There seems to be less confusion this way.

Great topic by the way.

Chris Manus

I think the viewer will not support textures. I don't know this for a fact but since the viewer is based on the core VW 9 product I doubt the necessary Renderwork components are installed to support them. Just guessing

Good Luck

[Matthew Giampapa]

The viewer will not support textures.

Matthew Giampapa

[This message has been edited by Matthew Giampapa (edited 09-19-2001).]

[Ken]

quote:

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...The residential market has always seemed hit and miss to me, and for every good designer there are 100 developers going for the same dollar (thats why I got out of residential)...

---

This seems to be a marketing paradox for NNA. The nature of VW, with its ease of use, weak WGR, interface with DXF/DWG, etc., is ideally suited for small projects like residential. It has a comfortable niche catering to individual architects and designers with its features, limitations and entry price. Those same individual architects and designers have as much preference or choice for commercial projects as NNA wanting to pit VW head-to-head against Autocad. We can and we do some commercial, but "real" commercial goes first to the "big boys." All but the smallest commercial is management-heavy and design-light, and CADD becomes less relevant.

Such is the debate.

Tools define the trade and we naturally change with marketing needs. If we need more sophisticated design and presentation tools or if we get larger commercial projects on a regular basis, then we change our software accordingly.

Viewer is only the tip of this iceberg.

...just some more thoughts.