Yoginathaswami Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Aloha everyone, I am wondering if anyone can suggest what would be the best graphic card to buy for MacPro? (That will enhance VW2010 use.) It will be used with Apple's 30" cinema display. Usage will be a lot of 2d drawing but increasing 3D as well with rendering etc. Thank you Quote Link to comment
ollo Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 hello, I think the NVIDIA Quadro FX 4800 for Mac? with Elemental Accelerator is the best graphics card for the MacPro. It would be nice to have someone else weigh in on this as far as how VW2010 uses the MacPro graphics card. It would also be interesting to know if the Elemental Accelerator is will help decrease wait time in Final Quality RW or Radiosity calculation. ollo Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I think the Quadro FX 4800 would be complete overkill. Vw doesn't use the graphics card for any rendering other than OpenGL. I think any of the newer Mac compatible graphics cards in the $150 dollar range would be fine. Quote Link to comment
Rossford Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Ray, Thanks for that info. I was at Best Buy last night on non VW business, but couldn't help checking out the desktops re VW and got the following advice: Wait for the Intel i7 processor - while most quad cores can't really be accessed by most programs, this is new architecture that lets programs access all 4 cores if necessary. Two mid level graphic cards (most computers don't have slots for two, but new version of Gateway FX does) are better than one higher end for fast rendering. As you can see, my computer isn't that old, and $1000 doesn't seem to be too expensive to me if I can avoid long waits and numerous crashes, which I have now. I haven't worked in 3D a lot just because of the crashes and delays. I guess I am asking what you think the highest level of Windows computer, graphics card and memory for someone moving into 3D with VW 2010 (just got my copy, not loaded) Thanks in advance for supplementing the VW knowledge base info. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Multiple cores will affect two aspects of Vectorworks. First, Several Renderworks modes will utilize multiple cores. Second, additional cores means that although Vectorworks runs on only one core at a time, it will be interrupted less frequently because other processes can utilize the other cores. The i7 processor has been here for many months. From an operating system standpoint there is no difference in how the cores are utilized. Core 2, Nehalem, and even Core processors are seen by the Operating system in the same way under Windows (snow leopard has an issue with Core processors, however). For Vectorworks there is little advantage to running dual cards. Other than OpenGL rendering very little of Vectorworks performance is dependent on the graphic card, and more importantly Vectorworks is temperamental when it comes to video card drivers. Dual card setups may compound this issue. If you want the fastest Renderworks times, a workstation with dual quad core Xeon processors is the way to go. But, you won't find any in your neighborhood Best Buy. Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Agreed. You would only need dual graphics cards if you play games. I would never believe any advice on computers from any salesperson, particularly one at Best Buy. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 There are circumstances in which a business case can be made for dual graphic cards. And if you were driving three or four monitors, you could even make one for Vectorworks. But at that point a person should probably be looking at workstation class machines anyway. Quote Link to comment
Rossford Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Thanks for the input. First, the comment on waiting for the i7 was based on the fact they had virtually no computers in the store - waiting for Windows 7 they had let the stock run down. I had a feeling that, while knowledgeable, he may have been trying to stop me from going somewhere else to buy saying "all the stores were low". It was also clear that despite being 50ish that he was a gamer and the VW knowledge base calls for a true workstation rather than gamer computer, so I figured his input was perhaps from the wrong perspective. Speaking of dual monitors, does anyone run a small second monitor just to keep the tools and etc. out of their way? Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I use two 19" LCDs, couldn't live without it. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 When I purchased the black beast, I went with a 24". If I add a second monitor, it will be large as well. You can't have too much screen, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment
ollo Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 So back to the graphics card discussion... In respects to modeling historic buildings from dxf meshes created by Lecia Cyclone from HDS point cloud info... Does anyone have comments as to if an extreme graphics card (such as the FX 4800) will speed up navigation on screen, modeling commands, and re-composition of 3D polygons from decomposed meshes? Quote Link to comment
Yoginathaswami Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thank you everyone. Ray, Apple can ship with any one of these two cards. Sounds like one of this will work just fine--from the discussion above. NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 with 512MB of GDDR3 memory, PCI Express 2.0, one Mini DisplayPort, and one dual-link DVI port ATI Radeon HD 4870 with 512MB of GDDR5 memory, PCI Express 2.0, one Mini DisplayPort, and one dual-link DVI port Talking about the processor cores, will VW take advantage of 8 core or that will be an overkill too? I know one can never go wrong with extra memory if ones budget allows. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 renderworks will utilize eight cores in most modes. otherwise vectorworks runs on a single core. Quote Link to comment
M5d Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 What about Open CL? Isn't Open CL going to boost rendering speeds via the graphics card somewhere in the not to distant future? It might make the beefier card a worthwhile investment. Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 It would be, but with the pace of video card development, I don't think it would pay off to buy a mega expensive one now. Quote Link to comment
Yoginathaswami Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 It would be, but with the pace of video card development, I don't think it would pay off to buy a mega expensive one now. Agreed Quote Link to comment
Yoginathaswami Posted October 5, 2009 Author Share Posted October 5, 2009 Thanks Brudgers. Thinking about doing the right investment for next three to four years... As Ray mentioned above, technology do move faster than most of us can keep up with. We will go broke if we try to keep up with it every year. Quote Link to comment
Rossford Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 Can someone please explain why Open GL only uses one core and the other rendering modes use several? As it happens, my office usually renders landscapes in open GL thinking its faster, at least for prelim viewing. On a multi core machine, would Fast Renderworks be even faster? Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 OpenGL doesn't use any cores of the processor, it uses the video card. The quality of OpenGL is no where near the quality of Renderworks and will always be faster. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted October 5, 2009 Share Posted October 5, 2009 What about Open CL? Isn't Open CL going to boost rendering speeds via the graphics card somewhere in the not to distant future? No. Open CL allows GPU computing, in theory. This means that tasks which would run on the CPU are written to run on the GPU. It might make the beefier card a worthwhile investment. In two or three years today's high end card will be middle of the pack in terms of hardware performance. Quote Link to comment
M5d Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 No. Open CL allows GPU computing, in theory. This means that tasks which would run on the CPU are written to run on the GPU. My understanding of these things is peripheral at best, but the hype as I read it was that OpenCL was going to unlock some pretty big number crunching abilities in the GPU that are specifically suited to tasks like rendering. No eh? What a pity, rendering is a huge bottleneck in my workflow and I thought OpenCL was going to provide a shot in the arm. Back to the topic of card selection, I used to update my mac towers about every 3 years and never swapped out a graphics card between updates. Graphic card options in the mac universe are not the same as the plethora of replenishing options you get over on the windows platform, so I've generally viewed taking the best option off the shelf at the time of purchase as the more economical, less wasteful way to go. I switched to an imac with my last update and the same is true because, of course, even if I wanted to swap the GPU (like I never have) I never could. Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 GPUs are getting pretty powerful these day's, so combining them with the CPU can yield some incredible gains. IMHO, right now video cards are not that important to VW performance if you have a fairly modern one. Screen refresh is the main feature to me. Quote Link to comment
Rossford Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Ray, Just in case I get a new desktop, then, what would you say is a decent windows GPU where I wouldn't see any benefit - say 512MB dedicated memory? Or would 1GB prove any different? As always, thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment
Yoginathaswami Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Ray, the screen refresh is an important feature that impacts many of us. Are you suggesting that high powered card will make a difference? If yes, where do you draw the line without it being an overkill? Will the cards shipped by Apple serve the need? Thanks Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 First off, I'm not a graphics card expert, I only know what works for me. I bought a Quadro card once and it was a waste of money for VW use. I always buy the latest model NVidia card possible for around $120, what I consider the price/value line. It's always worked well for me. I run two monitors with 512 MB of memory, but that's probably going to go up to 1GB on my next purchase. Quote Link to comment
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