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As far as I can tell, Acad is using Subdivision Surfaces. Meaning a couple of polygons thrown into a rounding algorithm. The result of such an operation is ... lots of polygons (faces). That's the way ArchiCAD does it in combination with CINEMA 4D. You can do the same thing if you combine CINEMA 4D with VW.

It might be that Autodesk uses Maya's Sub-D technology. That's not the same as Subdivision Surfaces, as Sub-D is curve-based and very similar to NURBS. You can convert Sub-D to NURBS without losing information. If that is the case, then they have something we don't. But if it's the former, then we have nothing much to worry about. It's not integrated into VW, but with a simple 3DS or DXF exchange from C4D to VW you achieve exactly the same thing.

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As far as I can tell, Acad is using Subdivision Surfaces. Meaning a couple of polygons thrown into a rounding algorithm. The result of such an operation is ... lots of polygons (faces). That's the way ArchiCAD does it in combination with CINEMA 4D. You can do the same thing if you combine CINEMA 4D with VW.

It might be that Autodesk uses Maya's Sub-D technology. That's not the same as Subdivision Surfaces, as Sub-D is curve-based and very similar to NURBS. You can convert Sub-D to NURBS without losing information. If that is the case, then they have something we don't. But if it's the former, then we have nothing much to worry about. It's not integrated into VW, but with a simple 3DS or DXF exchange from C4D to VW you achieve exactly the same thing.

Yes you can do a lot in other apps like

or
too .

But you will get mesh with dozen of vertices which is difficult to work with in VW ... and the surface will be faceted not smooth like NURBS.

It is possible to convert such a mesh into VW solid but you can not convert this solid into wall, roof floor atc objects..

At least NNA could add .3dm (open NURBS) importer :)

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Yes you can do a lot in other apps like
or
too .

But you will get mesh with dozen of vertices which is difficult to work with in VW ... and the surface will be faceted not smooth like NURBS.

It is possible to convert such a mesh into VW solid but you can not convert this solid into wall, roof floor atc objects..

At least NNA could add .3dm (open NURBS) importer :)

I know you get a mesh. That's what you get in ArchiCAD as well (when you combine it with C4D), and as far as I can tell you get a mesh in ACAD as well. I didn't say it was a good workflow, only that it seems ACAD is using this method to create blob-like geometry. As far as I can see, they are NOT using NURBS to make that blob. I know DWG is a carrier for NURBS, but I think that they're using Subdivision Surfaces for this blob-thing. Of course, I might be mistaken.

ACAD cannot convert the geometry to a wall either. Even ArchiCAD cannot. They can integrate the geometry in the model, but it's not a wall object in its strictest sense. At least Vectorworks allows you to substract from / add 3D objects to a wall object (since VW 2010).

Why would NNA have to implement .3dm (assuming that McNeel indeed offers it as an open format)? Vectorworks supports IGES, X_T, and a couple of other NURBS-enabled formats.

Edited by BaRa
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The free-form modeling does not have any practical application in Architecture, unless it's for a Geary-type structure with free-form curved metal plates. And for that, Catia is used for the metal plate fabrication. Fabric structures use some curves, but they tend to curve in one dimension only -- fabrics would need to be stitched in triangular panels to curve in several dimensions. But generally, for fabric structures, a simple barrel vault will do.

I would not disregard free-form modeling completely, though. For Vw Architect and Landmark, I see some great potential for it in terrain modeling. Push-pulling terrain, instead of just plugging elevation numbers on terrain points. Sketchup already does this function with the Sandbox tools.

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Yes you can do a lot in other apps like
or
too .

But you will get mesh with dozen of vertices which is difficult to work with in VW ... and the surface will be faceted not smooth like NURBS.

It is possible to convert such a mesh into VW solid but you can not convert this solid into wall, roof floor atc objects..

At least NNA could add .3dm (open NURBS) importer :)

I know you get a mesh. That's what you get in ArchiCAD as well (when you combine it with C4D), and as far as I can tell you get a mesh in ACAD as well. I didn't say it was a good workflow, only that it seems ACAD is using this method to create blob-like geometry. As far as I can see, they are NOT using NURBS to make that blob. I know DWG is a carrier for NURBS, but I think that they're using Subdivision Surfaces for this blob-thing. Of course, I might be mistaken.

ACAD cannot convert the geometry to a wall either. Even ArchiCAD cannot. They can integrate the geometry in the model, but it's not a wall object in its strictest sense. At least Vectorworks allows you to substract from / add 3D objects to a wall object (since VW 2010).

Why would NNA have to implement .3dm (assuming that McNeel indeed offers it as an open format)? Vectorworks supports IGES, X_T, and a couple of other NURBS-enabled formats.

You are right ACAD does not use NURBS in the video:

cit: "Free-Form Design uses very simple and intuitive modeling techniques, based on pushing and pulling vertices, edges, or faces of a mesh. These operations are done through direct manipulation of the mesh, and some other commands like extrude and split. The modeler then has the ability to smooth the mesh, making an approximation of a curve with different levels of complexity. You can smooth a mesh primitive or smooth different entities like existing solids, closed polylines, etc. The beauty of this method is that at any time you will be able to convert a mesh into a solid, and then apply any operations allowed for solids (like Thicken, Shell, Boolean operations in general, etc)."

(original article)

Would be interesting to see how smooth the mesh is and how smooth is the surface of the solid object created from that mesh ..

3dm .. actually I was thinking about MOI , but it can export files in IGES format so you are right again :)

On the other hand support of open file formats like collada and 3dm would help better interoperability and data flux between VW and other apps in the near future..

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cit: "Free-Form Design uses very simple and intuitive modeling techniques, based on pushing and pulling vertices, edges, or faces of a mesh. These operations are done through direct manipulation of the mesh, and some other commands like extrude and split. The modeler then has the ability to smooth the mesh, making an approximation of a curve with different levels of complexity. You can smooth a mesh primitive or smooth different entities like existing solids, closed polylines, etc. The beauty of this method is that at any time you will be able to convert a mesh into a solid, and then apply any operations allowed for solids (like Thicken, Shell, Boolean operations in general, etc)."

(original article)

LOL! That's a whole lot of marketing speak for something that has been around for ages in polygon-based 3D-modeling applications. :grin:

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