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2010 and 2D wall joins?


Kees W

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I just watched the DCM video. It mentions improved wall join features.

The lack of flexibility here is preventing me from using the wall tools at all.

The video unfortunately doesn't provide any insight in the usability of walls with multiple components.

As a simple example, in 2009, joining a bearing concrete wall to a non-bearing brick wall results in all sorts of weirdness that cannot be corrected easily and definitely cannot be sent out to a contractor:

Here's what the standard join looks like in 2009

[img:left]http://gallery.me.com/kees/100110/VW-20wall-20fail-201/web.jpg?ver=12531799940001[/img]

joining separate components doesn't work as expected as there doesn't seem to be a way to get rid of the white space:

[img:left]http://gallery.me.com/kees/100110/VW-20wall-20fail-204/web.jpg?ver=12531799950001[/img]

joining all components manually still creates the silly 45? connection:

[img:left]http://gallery.me.com/kees/100110/VW-20wall-20fail-205/web.jpg?ver=12531799900001[/img]

So that leaves manually adding an object to make the join look like one could actually build it. This is obviously not an option:

[img:left]http://gallery.me.com/kees/100110/VW-20wall-20fix/web.jpg?ver=12531799930001[/img]

Why do wall components join at 45? angles? That never happens in the real world. Why can't we just set preference for components (Bearing-non-bearing would help already) Then non-bearing components would always stop against bearing components.

I keep thinking I must be missing something, but I have so far failed to find a solution for what is such a basic building principle.

Edited by Kees W
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Well, actually you can do what you want with those walls. You just need to know how.

Do the following: (I am using your picture for reference)

1. Draw the horizontal wall too short, so not to the corner.

2. Draw the vertical wall up to the corner point. So this wall will end at the highest point of the horizontal wall.

3. Now you need to select the component join tool.

4. Now select the T-join mode without end line.

5. Connect the tree outer components by first clicking on the horizontal wall component and then on the vertical wall component.

6. Now select the T-join mode with end line.

7. Connect the inner component like you did the others.

If you did this right, you'll have the wall conection you want withouth the extra polygon.

You can actually make almost every possible wall connection! You only need to know how, so try a lot of different things out, and when it works, you'll now it for the next time.

You can also make custom wall caps by using wall connections! Lets say you have a wall with 1 core component and 2 finishing components. Place the wall horizontal, and place one vertical. Set the length of the vertical wall to the thickness of the horizontal wall. Now join the core component with the T-join without end line. Then join the two finishing components to the fartest finishing component of the vertical wall with the T-join without end line. Set the vertical wall to show both end caps. You now have a custom end cap!

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thanks, but that doesn't work. Step 7 fails with the message that 'the first selected component will not intersect the second selected component' (I think the problem is different component thickness, the concrete is 200mm, the brick 150mm)

Even if that did work, I still think that's a lot of steps to achieve what in actuality is the default solution.

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thanks, but that doesn't work. Step 7 fails with the message that 'the first selected component will not intersect the second selected component' (I think the problem is different component thickness, the concrete is 200mm, the brick 150mm)

Even if that did work, I still think that's a lot of steps to achieve what in actuality is the default solution.

It does work. I tried it here with two different walls with different thickness for each component.

You'll get that error for different reasons:

* Did you draw the horizontal wall not to the edge, so that wall is not touching the vertical? You have to to get it working!

* Did you draw the vertical to the highest point of the horizontal wall? If not, draw it further and cut it off later.

* Did you first removed all wall caps and joins so that you have two clear ends?

* If all else fails, try connecting the components in a different order.

If it still not works, send me the file and I'll look at it.

And it's not that many steps. Once you get the hang of it and better understand how the walls function, it's fairly easy and done real fast. Plus you have the plus of moving the walls like you do others. If you have drawn a polygon over it, you'll have to move that too each time and make sure it's always on top of the wall. So that last one is harder to keep track of it.

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And it's not that many steps. Once you get the hang of it and better understand how the walls function, it's fairly easy and done real fast. Plus you have the plus of moving the walls like you do others. If you have drawn a polygon over it, you'll have to move that too each time and make sure it's always on top of the wall. So that last one is harder to keep track of it.

Still doesn't work over here.

My problem is also that the default solution for component joins in VW, is a solution that never, ever, occurs in the real world.(45? angle joins)

The solution that I am trying to draw is the way it is build 99% of the time. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect VectorWorks to do better here.

The AutoCAD solution shown in the video is better because it is a method, documented and repeatable.

To do something similar in VW requires fiddling. The outcome is less predictable and the drafting technique is much harder to explain to new users.

VW has always been very easy to pick up and use, but the wall tool to me, still doesn't live up to the usability we have come to expect from VW.

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And Btw joining two different wall types with different thicknesses and different numbers of components as shown in the video ... it is in VW impossible without covering the wall joint with a polygon mask ..

It's always possible! But it sometimes requires an extra wall.

You are right ... but it always requires extra wall and is a little bit tricky ...

wall connection ...

Turn on wall caps for the "helper" wall. Or turn off the thickness of the overal wall for the whole drawing (in the viewport).

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Wall caps of the "helper" wall were turned on.

Turn off thickness of the wall outline imply, that you will draw it manually ... not good. Better is replace missing pieces with line segments on the same class - workaround workaround.

I would prefere clean solution described above, but for now I can live with these small disturbances. :)

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I just watched the DCM video. It mentions improved wall join features.

The lack of flexibility here is preventing me from using the wall tools at all.

The video unfortunately doesn't provide any insight in the usability of walls with multiple components.

As a simple example, in 2009, joining a bearing concrete wall to a non-bearing brick wall results in all sorts of weirdness that cannot be corrected easily and definitely cannot be sent out to a contractor

Indeed. Can you imagine the problems we here in Llareggub have: we mostly build walls of precast sandwich concrete elements. As the load-bearing slab is also precast, pretensioned concrete, more often than not we have corners where the outer shell & thermal insulation continue (dimensionally) whereas the inner shell changes from load-bearing to non-load bearing. Now, with McMansionWorks none of this can be done.

Shall post conceptual images later on, albeit for no good. In Texas, no such construction exists.

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And Btw joining two different wall types with different thicknesses and different numbers of components as shown in the video ... it is in VW impossible without covering the wall joint with a polygon mask ..

It's always possible! But it sometimes requires an extra wall.

You are right ... but it always requires extra wall and is a little bit tricky ...

wall connection ...

Turn on wall caps for the "helper" wall. Or turn off the thickness of the overal wall for the whole drawing (in the viewport).

A Helper Wall? Well, here we have a true BIM expert?

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Wall caps of the "helper" wall were turned on.

Turn off thickness of the wall outline imply, that you will draw it manually ... not good. Better is replace missing pieces with line segments on the same class - workaround workaround.

I would prefere clean solution described above, but for now I can live with these small disturbances. :)

You don't need a wall outline. It's just a graphical preference.

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