rb-arch Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I like the new stair dialogue boxes, but can't figure out how to get the stair to be visible on the floor above. In 2009, the stair was locked to the layers, so it would be visible on the 2 floors. I must be missing something. Quote Link to comment
Jeffrey W Ouellette Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 The new Stair object does not provide this functionality. Layer-to -layer linking, with a 2D object on the layer above, still works with the Custom Stair tool (which is actually the old Stair PIO), however. Quote Link to comment
rb-arch Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Thank you for your reply. Kind of disappointing actually. You finally get amazing options to make great stairs, and it lets you down with simple 2D graphics. What good is it showing up on 1 floor? The fact that a stair would show on the floor that it is linked to above, was one of the few menu items in the 2009 version that wasn't cumbersome. I guess I will copy the stair to the next floor, then move it down 9' and strip it of the all the 2D graphics - clumsy. Quote Link to comment
CipesDesign Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Here's an old trick that should still work: duplicate the stair from one layer to the other, then move it up/down by the layer to layer ("Z") difference. This gives you the stair on both levels, and the ability to set different stair break options for each floor (up or down), also, because the stairs will exactly coincide in 3d space the model and sections will still be accurate. The only downside is that changes to the stair require re-duplication. Another way to do it is to have the layer below visible and use a floor object with a stair well cut out of it to mask everything except the stair. Very anatomically accurate and fairly easy to do. There are always problems and always solutions. You just gotta think like the software a little ;-) Quote Link to comment
rb-arch Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 The duplication work around is what I mentioned in my post, perhaps not very clearly. Also, you can't notate this stair with a down arrow, so that needs to be done manually too. The new stair menu is quite powerful, but it lost some functionality. Quote Link to comment
Jershaun Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 one step forward and 2 steps back. Things like this is what makes vw an incomplete package. Quote Link to comment
Rostislav Maliar Kr?l' Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 From what Jeffrey is saying you still have the old stair tool to link to layers and the new stair tool, you choose based upon which one serves your purpose best. Quote Link to comment
_c_ Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Shaun, Shaun, don't let the world be black on you! Personally I very seldom used the "link-to-layer" feature of the old stair: if you work on large projects you'll have one file for each floor and compose your model in references elsewhere. That feature -a good one, no doubt- is only useful if you have very small projects and with two floors. Anything else is simply a disturbance. I was compelled to un-group stairs to have the display of lower floors on the upper one, since most of the times the stair won't be regularly rising across the building, in our projects. With the new stair you can split 2D from 3D, thus the display of the lower stair on the upper floor will be precisely done according to your needs. Not displaying in 3D if you don't need it. I added now an image of a model with one building, which is spite of being rather small, is much better off without layer height binding of the stair. orso Quote Link to comment
rb-arch Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Unless I am missing something, it doesn't matter how many floors you have. When you get to the top floor, using this stair method, you need a work around to show the stair below. Look, this isn't the end of the world, just pointing out how I feel the software could be better. Quote Link to comment
Peter Eichel Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 You completely reworked the stairs tool and did away with the dual floor view! What were you thinking? I am going to assume that this oversight is going to be corrected in 2010 with the next service pack. Quote Link to comment
Jonathan Pickup Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 the old stair is still there, if you want the stair on two floors. it's now called the custom stair. Quote Link to comment
billtheia Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 If all of this is true, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be disappointed in the "new" stair tool. I do many projects with two and three floors and found the layer-linking functionality to be very BIM-like - draw ONE stair and view it differently from floor to floor. The graphics and railing options left me wanting, though. It sounds like NNA has now given us a stair that has good graphics but requires a NON-BIM-like workaround for viewing between floors. Two half-solutions. I hope that I'm wrong. I'll see when my copy of VW2010 arrives. Quote Link to comment
Jershaun Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 NNA just isn't thinking straight. They're always doing the job HALF way and DON'T listen to suggestions. The dual floor view was great because one could draw ONE stair and it reflected on 2 floors. ALL NNA needed to do was take it a step further and come up with a plan to still draw ONE stair BUT reflect on more than 2 floors. This is where vw is weak. It cannot do things automatically. If the ground floor has a wall that is higher than the third floor, vw isn't intelligent to automatically reflect that wall on other floors. If there's a flat roof over the Ground floor, vw isn't intelligent to automatically reflect it dashed in the floor above. If there is a roof above, vw isn't intelligent to automatically reflect it dotted on the floor below. Users have to constantly come up with work-arounds. I'm tired of work-arounds. Why can't it be like ArchiCAD? This is the whole point of BIM. It should be ONE building model therefore ONE staircase. Then the program should be able to determine the floor plans based on the individual floors. That's why lot's of people don't accept vw as being a BIM tool because it only has HALF tools. Quote Link to comment
_c_ Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 You can use the simple stair or the custom stair (the old stair), as Jonathan already told you. Nobody compels you to use the new one, if you don't want to. So you aren't losing anything, you are being given more. Whereby this new stair is advanced and not for the simple project, for that is absolutely overkill. Not all architects have projects with two-three floors. And some architects needed an enhanced tool for their work. We didn't have it. We have it now. Please be so kind to try to think of other needs than your immediate ones. I told you already that I didn't use that option because it didn't fit a multiple-file project organization. If you have the building split into floors, because of its largeness, how do you have the stair project it's 2D part to a floor that's on another file? orso Quote Link to comment
bc Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 We pay half price and get 80%. Still a good deal. I DO, however, fully understand your frustration. Quote Link to comment
_c_ Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Also, you can't notate this stair with a down arrow, so that needs to be done manually too. Yes, you can. You can have anything you want for the arrows. orso Quote Link to comment
gScott Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 You can use the simple stair or the custom stair (the old stair), as Jonathan already told you. Nobody compels you to use the new one, if you don't want to. So you aren't losing anything, you are being given more. ..... Please be so kind to try to think of other needs than your immediate ones... orso, the "custom stair" does show upper + lower floor views, which is very useful for calculating landings, headroom etc, but doesn't work properly for most other things. the new stair has lots of new options, but doesn't show upper + lower floor views... how can this be clever or better? escher aside, what staircase leaves one floor + doesn't arrive at another floor? what stair doesn't need to to be shown in plan on upper + lower floors? it's not clever or a matter of choice to have two stair tools that don't do the job properly, and suggesting that a CAD system need not properly cater to a building of more than 2 storeys is ridiculous. this is a great disappointment + this alone will probably stop me upgrading Quote Link to comment
billtheia Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Well said, Gideon. Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 All I know is that the new stair tool will finally allow us to actually use a stair tool on our projects. The lower/upper level thing is just a huge annoyance when it comes to multi-storey buildings. Of course I still I have a deep visceral hate of dialogue boxes. Cadimage Tools' Stair Builder is probably the most forward thinking stair tool in this regard. Quote Link to comment
Kool Aid Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Well said, Christiaan! In my tools, I have dialogs only for very specific uses: access to certain resources (mainly symbols and wall styles) and obscure settings that no-one really needs, but have to be there since I always have to expect the unexpected. We hatess dialogs! They're bad interface! Quote Link to comment
Kool Aid Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Personally I very seldom used the "link-to-layer" feature of the old stair: if you work on large projects you'll have one file for each floor and compose your model in references elsewhere. Orso, Orso? I'm yet to see what the new stair tool does, but, without prejudice, I have great faith in German engineering and am looking forward to using the new stair tool. Quote Link to comment
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