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mike m oz

Vectorworks 2010

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Have they fixed the backwards DL/SLVP system?

Please fix the basics before adding more stuff.

Highpass, what is that you think is backwards with the present DL/SLVP system? I am sure that a little bit more detail would be helpful to all of us in understanding what issues you may have with the present working of DL/SLVP.

Maybe a different post of yours in another forum has already been posted, just direct us there so we can read.

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I also fail to see what's wrong in the Sheet Layer/Viewport system. I use it every day without a glitch, often in rather big projects.

Please tell.

orso

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Working in 3D is now much easier because of the improved 3D Snaps and Working Planes

The 3D Snaps are colour coded and simple to use.

Working Planes can now be set to object faces with one click and once set can be interactively rotated on screen via colour coded handles on the colour coded axes.

Working Planes can be saved and then accessed from a new pop-up on the View Bar.

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To mike m oz, orso b. schmid, ray libby, 1D2D3D_4D, etc., etc., thanks for all the information you guys are sharing, its very appreciated.

If you don't mind telling, does vw2010 do "3D hatch" and does it have "clash detection"?

Thanks,

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If you don't mind telling, does vw2010 do "3D hatch" and does it have "clash detection"?

Vw 2010 doesn't include 3D hatching and nor does it include clash detection.

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No 3D hatch, if I understand correctly what you mean.

What do you mean as clash detection?

But now, look, I am no 3D modeler, never need 3D free forms in my architectural projects, but here a is two minutes experiment with wall sculpting. Well, is it fun!

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@orso b. schmid

Imagine you have a building with a lot of columns and beams (steel or concrete). You layout an airconditioning duct route in this building. Now, with "clash detection" one can easily see where the beams or columns go "through" the duct. This is one example where clash detection can be used. Basically for any conflicts. I am extremely shocked as to why this hasn't been incorporated into 2010 seeing the tool is in the Parasolid/D-Cube tool set.

No 3D hatch!!!!???!!!

What the...!!!!

Extremely disappointed.

This is another example (among others) of Vectorworks showing so much promise but not going that 5% further to make it a complete finished package.

@mike m oz

Unified view?? I'm lost on this one. How exactly is this pic different to other versions of vw? I thought of unified meaning showing 2D elements as well as 3D. In other words, one could be able to see a dimension is iso view as an isometric dimension.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. :)

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@orso b. schmid

Imagine you have a building with a lot of columns and beams (steel or concrete). You layout an airconditioning duct route in this building. Now, with "clash detection" one can easily see where the beams or columns go "through" the duct. This is one example where clash detection can be used. Basically for any conflicts.

Shaun, interesting. This is very peculiar. Never needed it myself (I call in people like you to do this kind of things. They do it in ACAD and probably sweat blood, as we say in my colorful country, Italy)

The new constraints of VW15 might make this realizable, perhaps without plug-in too. You should try, and tell us how you go.

No 3D hatch!!!!???!!!

This is another example (among others) of Vectorworks showing so much promise but not going that 5% further to make it a complete finished package.

Shaun, I use section viewports and never needed a 3D hatch.

Now, wait unitl you see for yourself. This is truly not a 5% improvement-release. It's massive. I bet you might still miss this or that (who doesn't) but all in all you'll find it quite quite sensational.

orso

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Unified view?? I'm lost on this one. How exactly is this pic different to other versions of vw? I thought of unified meaning showing 2D elements as well as 3D. In other words, one could be able to see a dimension is iso view as an isometric dimension.

Shaun, Unified View looks great. There have been many impediments to working fluidly in 3D in VW and this removes one of those impediments. In previous versions of VW when working in a 3D view of the entire model if you wanted to edit something you had to make the relevant Layer active which was a pain in the ass and made the model jump around on the screen. Now one can finally work in 3D as if everything were on one Layer.

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These are just few of our favorite things.

Right. Let's hope that all these items are understated along the lines of the Stair tool description. I gather that it has not been ?improved? but entirely recreated by Computerworks (of Germany and Switzerland.)

Ok, now I get it. They just changed the window pio to be able to create corner windows. We don't get those here because we build different, but I have my own tool for that. I thought it had something to do with the walls.

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@orso b. schmid

I didn't mean this was a 5% improvement. I meant they (NNA) always go 95% of the way but most of the time falls short 5% of the final mark. BTW, I've already ordered vw2010 BUT thats mainly due to me missing out on vw2009. :)

@Christiaan

OK I understand. But looking at the video, I don't think this is such a ground breaking feature. So this brings me to another point (maybe others can shed light on). Do we or do we not have 3D dimensions??

Thanks.

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Dworks - You can now modify through layers in 3D views and this combined with the 3D snapping and Working Plane improvements makes working in 3D much easier. 2D objects can now also be Planar Objects tied to the layer ground plane so that they rotate with the view in 3D rather than remain where they are on the screen plane.

Shaun - 3D dimensioning is not in Vw 2010.

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@orso b. schmid

Imagine you have a building with a lot of columns and beams (steel or concrete). You layout an airconditioning duct route in this building. Now, with "clash detection" one can easily see where the beams or columns go "through" the duct. This is one example where clash detection can be used. Basically for any conflicts. I am extremely shocked as to why this hasn't been incorporated into 2010 seeing the tool is in the Parasolid/D-Cube tool set.

This is actually a very complex issue. The existence of a 3D-library is a requirement, but does not actually mean anything without heaps of other stuff.

The industrial-grade clash detector is this:

http://www.solibri.com/solibri-model-checker.html

I understand that with Solibri, you can ? and need to ? define rules. Without rules, how can clashes be detected? A duct might be happily allowed to penetrate a truss or even eg. a plywood-webbed beam. A small item, a water pipe or sewer line, could go through concrete or steel beams or columns just fine, as long as the penetration is positioned correctly.

In my day, one of the most important design documents was a consolidated ?Hole Drawing?, ie. a set of drawings into which all consultants added their penetration requirements. They were then vetted in half a dozen of meetings until a consensus was reached and then everyone went and changed their drawings.

So, even forgetting the fact that we do not have ducts as such in VW (this can have at least in theory a quite easy solution), the Rule Book (and adherence to it) will be a significant problem.

Meanwhile, it is easy to visualise the goings-on. Just model your structures, ducts, conduits, pipes, cable trays, suspended ceilings and so on with distinct colours, not forgetting transparency, and you have a pretty good picture of any clashes.

At least it'd be easy should we have a 3D duct/conduit/cable tray/etc tool that could be manipulated in 3D. I'd rather see more power in design-decision making than in post-mortems.

However, the issue you raise is of serious importance.

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I meant they (NNA) always go 95% of the way but most of the time falls short 5% of the final mark.

I'd rather say that NNA, as all big firms, is 80/80 at best. Even I have difficulties in reaching my QM target of 90/90, because I also try to avoid BloatWare (surely a ? of Microsoft?)

80/80: the software does 80% of things to 80% of users. Net yield: 64%.

Not bad, considering the fact that in architecture, exceptions are the rule.

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@orso b. schmid

Imagine you have a building with a lot of columns and beams (steel or concrete). You layout an airconditioning duct route in this building. Now, with "clash detection" one can easily see where the beams or columns go "through" the duct. This is one example where clash detection can be used. Basically for any conflicts. I am extremely shocked as to why this hasn't been incorporated into 2010 seeing the tool is in the Parasolid/D-Cube tool set.

No 3D hatch!!!!???!!!

What the...!!!!

Extremely disappointed.

This is another example (among others) of Vectorworks showing so much promise but not going that 5% further to make it a complete finished package.

@mike m oz

Unified view?? I'm lost on this one. How exactly is this pic different to other versions of vw? I thought of unified meaning showing 2D elements as well as 3D. In other words, one could be able to see a dimension is iso view as an isometric dimension.

Thanks and sorry for all the questions. :)

Clash detection does not even exist in a workable manner in any application at this moment. Navisworks, the supposed clash detector in you example above sees every HVAC connection purposeful or not as a clash. If you ask and get an honest answer from any of the vendors they will tell you it does not work.

It appears fromt he video that the big difference is there are no limitations to snapping or manipulating across layers.

In all things with improvements they are incremental and will never include everything everyone wants or needs at this moment and so this also appears to be following that rule.

Edited by Rostislav Maliar Kr?l'

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@Kool Aid

All that you mention is what a BIM package should easily be able to do (please let's not argue about VW being BIM or not) and if a package has intelligence to create these objects then it's easy to implement "clash detection". Anyway I'm not going to hold my breath because 3D Dimensions has been on the wish list from version 9 or 10 and it seems NNA doesn't listen to their users and I hate to think how long I'll have to wait for "clash detection"-maybe when computers have converted to 128-bit.

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No 3d DCM only 2d DCM implemented at this time from what one can tell in the videos.

This is what I mean about NNA. They never go all the way. In this case they get the job HALF done. :cry:

I'm a fan of Vectorworks but sometimes I wonder why and my faith is slowly being chipped away. I can feel the competition leaving vw behind which means I'll be left behind. In this modern era of technology if one doesn't keep up with the times, one is dead.

Let's hope VW2011 and VW2012 are huge leaps forward. :cool:

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I can feel the competition leaving vw behind which means I'll be left behind. In this modern era of technology if one doesn't keep up with the times, one is dead.

Who/which Apps do you consider to be the competition?

Edited by Vincent C

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I only refer to pertinent issues?

If you are happy to just have ?clashes? ?detected? (intersections of 3D-objects identified; ie. sets of points that etc.), that is one thing. The usefulness of such detections is another one.

Now, here

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6935/theclash.png

we are penetrating a steel section. Depending on a number of rules (for the assessment of which I prefer to have a highly-qualified engineer), the red and green penetrations/clashes can be this or that.

As an example, in a beam we could have green penetrations of a dimension at quite a regular interval without compromising the structural integrity. Red penetrations would be much more complicated.

So: rules, rules and rules ? or educated viewing of visualisations.

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Oh, please. Architects have used their eyes and brains for collision detection for millennia and suddenly it's a crisis that software can't do it for you. I should be appalled that VW can't attend site meetings for me. Off to the wish list...

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