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Did someone Hide the Hidden Line orbiting tool??


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Hey All,

Unless I?m just a knucklehead it looks to me like VW doesn?t do Hidden line rendering while orbiting, zooming, or panning or Hidden line rendering in both perspective & orthographic projection with out a Camera VP [or crop might be the more correct terminolgy?]? And boy oh boy waiting for re-rendering after moving a hidden line rendered Design Layer view feels like being tripped from behind while free style dancing?a silly metaphor for a design flow interruption.

The Open GL option does appear to offer some visual feedback with more fluidity, but not sure that?s really an adequate replacement. Placing the pivot point of the flyover tool in camera VP/crop perspective does give some control over the rotation, but it seems easy to lose the model on the edges of the VP ? stretching the VP/crop as wide as it can on the screen helps somewhat, but it still feels sort of like steering a donkey rather then a thoroughbred!!

Does VW really lack this functionality? Or does it have its own way of providing smoothing flowing non-wire frame design feedback in a similar but unique way which is still beyond my learning curve??

Enquiring and demanding minds want to know?.. ;-) daniel

Edited by danielf
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Ace, flying around within the VP container is simply not recommended ...

practice your loops & stalls from within the expanse of the DesignLayer environment,

and then pass the final contorted view off to VP via View > ' Create Viewport'.

HiddenLine Render is a computationally intensive operation which will break the balls

off even the most sanguine Pilot.

Fly-over is NOT to be utilized with HLR. Unless, of course, you happen to be Free-Lancing at Sandia National Laboratory.

Hence, the standardized graphic display power and flexibility of OpenGL which can be controlled

by the various display options from the Rendering menu.

Nevertheless, it really comes down to the ability of the CAD Monkey to produce

the minimum amount of code with the maximum impact.

And this is where the use of Groups, Classes, ParametricObjects, Hybrids, Symbols, and NURBS

take on a whole new meaning and efficacy.

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OpenGL is the only mode which will offer a continuous removal of hidden lines while orbiting.

Unlike openGL all other hidden line rendering modes, rely on your CPU rather than the display card and therefore do not continuously update.

At least on my system, Vectorworks and Sketchup tend to mutually corrupt the display system memory if I run them at the same time...though this can happen with other combinations of applications which render lots of display such as media players and when neither Vectorworks or Sketchup are running.

So the first step for the dropped corners is probably a reboot.

Vectorworks OpenGL mode is also highly dependent on having recent video drivers. Updating your video drivers is the next step.

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islandmon -- Gee gosh darn!! When I fly my AutoCAD Snoopy plane trying to escape the evil Red Barron in full HLR & perspective & transparency material mapping for glass & ground shadows all in full operation and then enter into an evasive death spiral at blazing speeds heading straight towards 00?-00? ?Z? I can at that last instance rudder up the nose with enough of a surprise leaving the Red Barron to face the Z mortal plane on his own. In other words, there?s enough operational CPU power for total freedom of movement. And SketchUp goes even further and does this with excellent material mapping to boot?.though full shadows does create some turbulence.

Seems to me this isn?t just a neat trick for both those lesser equipped software?s modelers, but in fact a life saving maneuverability for design visualization.

Well, I guess the programming gods giveth & taketh away depeneding on their underlying architecture.

Thanks for the tip on, ?Groups, Classes, ParametricObjects, Hybrids, Symbols, and NURBS

take on a whole new meaning and efficacy.? Seems there are many pieces to this puzzle.

Cheers, daniel

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Brudgers -- I wonder if VW feels a little threatened by that up start SketchUp new kid on the block and so decides its seen enough and shuts you down; after all being the King of Visualization is a mighty throne to look down from but perhaps a shaky leg shows up when the new kid on the block with it meager faces & edges is seen spinning circles more gracefully then a hummingbird!!

Edited by danielf
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In other words, there?s enough operational CPU power for total freedom of movement.

AutoCAD typically renders using OpenGL or DirectX, depending on how you have set up HEIDI. Both use your graphics processor, not your CPU.

Because of Mac support DirectX isn't an option for vectorworks, but OpenGL still offers real time rendering.

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Brudgers -- I wonder if VW feels a little threatened by that up start SketchUp new kid on the block and so decides its seen enough and shuts you down; after all being the King of Visualization is a mighty throne to look down from but perhaps a shaky leg shows up when the new kid on the block with it meager faces & edges is seen spinning circles more gracefully then a hummingbird!!

Sketchup has display issues as well.

As with any software, it does some things really well and others not so well.

Like Vectorworks, it's the right tool for some jobs and not for others.

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Open GL or CPU or however it works....both AutoCAD and SketchUp produce high quality HLR & shaded rendering visualization in fully orbiting free flowing zooming spinning panning perspective mode....I don't know how to design with out this functionality, frankly. So I?m just surprised that VWs doesn't at least match this capability. Its Open GL option, at least under my newbie control, is adequate but not much more. This is just my opinion, of course, not meant to start any debates, but rather seeking input from experienced user about if whether or not i'm missing something while learning about VW. Thanks for your comments.

Edited by danielf
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Open GL or CPU or however it works....both AutoCAD and SketchUp produce high quality HLR & shaded rendering visualization in fully orbiting free flowing zooming spinning panning perspective mode....I don't know how to design with out this functionality, frankly. So I?m just surprised that VWs doesn't at least match this capability. Its Open GL option, at least under my newbie control, is adequate but not much more. This is just my opinion, of course, not meant to start any debates, but rather seeking input from experienced user about if whether or not i'm missing something while learning about VW. Thanks for your comments.

Well, I have to admit that there isn't really good workflow guidance available for Vectorworks...say something equivalent to Paul Aubin's books for ADSK products.

Figuring out these things and paying the dumb tax is all part of the learning curve I was alluding to earlier.

It's unrealistic to expect to ramp up in 30 days to the level of efficiency and comfort one developed over many years with another package.

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Who knows with the expert guidance found here, 30 days may kick the can down the road far enough to illuminate the virtues of VW for me....that?s my plan anyhow since there really isn't an alternative.

BTW, I did find the OpenGL settings box which allowed me to turn off textures which more approximates HDL as I would like. Looks like the can just took another bounce!! lol

For me there is a great advantage to orbiting models with out texture info & in HLR so the focus can be just on volume composition and other core design issues which are useful before getting into the finishes.

And I find that clients can be quite put off by seeing rendered textures which are too abstract for their untrained eyes and get very worried over the direction a design is taking if too much 'suggested' information is implied but not accurately illustrated....so HLR is a quick way to focus client meetings on form and not finish. It?s a great functionality to have. daniel

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Who knows with the expert guidance found here, 30 days may kick the can down the road far enough to illuminate the virtues of VW for me....that?s my plan anyhow since there really isn't an alternative.

The thing is Daniel, we are all users here, with lives and careers and workloads of our own.

While senior users are extremely knowledgeable about the program and to my mind are incredibly patient with newbies who come steaming on to these forums demanding instant answers and who complain because the program isn't like the program they have tried before and presumably found wanting, it's a bit much of you to expect anyone to provide you with free training.

My advice: breathe through your nose for a while, and pay for some training.

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David-- I have nothing but appreciation for all that offered their input and my enthusiasm for seeking others input should not be seen as a demand or filled with any expectation for a quick reply or any reply at all. Please accept my apology if in same way I have commincated a demanding or impatient tone, as this would not be a true reflection of my enjoyment and pleasure in discussing all that I have thus far!! Daniel

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Vectorworks offers far more powerful modelling modes than Sketchup. Sketchup can get away with doing things (planar surfaces) quick and easy because it only has easy things to deal with so it does its one job very well. Vectorworks on the other hand, has to deal with far more complex ways of doing things (any mix of planar surfaces, solid modeling, NURBs surfaces and 3D parametrics) which means that Vectorworks cannot easily benefit from some of tricks that packages offering less powerful ways of doing things can get away with, which in the early days of working with Vectorworks, may come across to some as being a less powerful option. Whether the user needs the power of Vectorworks is simply down to the individual users requirements and if they do, they are going to have to accept its going to take a little longer to grasp.

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Taken on whole i wouldn't dare compare SketchUP to the power or fullness and utility of any CAD/BIM purpose built design software; that would be just plain unreasonable. But what a joy it is to use...and what tremendous value it brings to the process of design --- from sketching, exploring, massing, inventing, creating, refining, and even realizing a very complete design model. And the visualization and presentation strengths it provides is priceless. Would i want to use it for the other half of my work...technical drawings....yikes!! Couldn't even imagine such a process....though i'm sure a brave and inspired soul could give it ago using Layout and even do surprising things with it.

But that's not an arguement for or a promotion of even wanting to try. daniel

Edited by danielf
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