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andrewbirch

Vectorworks 2010

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well 2009 came out in September 08, so one could safely assume that 2010 will come out in September 09.

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Does anyone know what is likely to be in it?

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well that's what I would guess, but you never know. 2009 does not seem to be getting the highest of praise. I am guessing the AutoCAD once-a-year revenue model is now the default.

Interesting there are so few comments, but quite a few views of the subject.

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I would imagine that more use will be made use of the Parasolid engine. Its presumably a significant investment and it was stated at launch of 2009 that only about 60% of the VW kernel has been swapped out to use the Parasolid engine so I expect that to grow along with more advantage being taken of the Parasolid multi threading capabilities to give VW a speed boost on multi core systems.

There is also a component of Parasolid that I understand has been licensed but we have yet to see anything of, although some work has obviously been done in this area as 2D constraints seemed to have improved significantly in 2009. I'm only guessing here, but it may be the 3D Dimensional Constraint Manager which allows dimensions to be bounded for upper and lower constraints for distance and angle. I believe that an example of this type of technology (although I don't know if Parasolid was used) was used in the design of the Swiss Re Centre in London where the CAD model of the thin shell structure can be deformed within the dimensional constraints of the model.

I would also expect a few bugs to have been resolved and a few more introduced!

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Any news on whether or not they'll finally fix the incredibly backwards DL/SLVP system? It's the one thing every operator we have gets stumped on. There really is no excuse for it this day and age.

I'd really rather they nail down what they already have before implementing some other fluffy marketing gimmick. So many basic things need attention - just look at the Wish List forum. I adore VW but am hesitant about giving these guys more money for sloppy, unsupported work.

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Most of my work is done in 3D and from my mechanical engineers point of view 3D constraints would be a great leap forward. Although software like 'Solidworks' is very good at what it does I find VW is able to model some very organic shapes that I can't do in other 'mechanical type' programs.

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Thanks for your insight. Thats why I held back from 2009. I want to move forward when I am able to use the full complement of the parasolid modeling tools. I am eager to see what kind of model size the next version can handle. I was watching someone use the new modo, and the amount of solids it can handle is simply stunning.

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Oh come on people, get real! Why has VW suddenly become competition for the likes of Bentley, Revit, ArchiCAD etc. what is everyone proposing? Is VW supposed to suddenly start costing 3x what it does now? or do you think the Tech guys are willing to start working for free 2/3 of the time?

Edited by Vincent C

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If that's what it takes to produce a decent building modeller as a basis for BIM then yes, but I'm hoping that it wouldn't be more than 2x.

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NNA had better get that act together and do something very attractive, new and advanced to beat off the competition such as Revit which seems to be taking over in the UK.

They did.....they bought ArchiCAD.....

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If that's what it takes to produce a decent building modeller as a basis for BIM then yes, but I'm hoping that it wouldn't be more than 2x.

They already have an expensive decent building modeller, how about just making VW the most stable(and cheap) program on the market....i think the fact that they actually do compete with the big boys proves their competence and dedication.

Edited by Vincent C

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"They," as in NNA don't. NAG do.

If NNA are going to go down this whole BIM route then they're going to need a decent building modeler.

You can't just take a CAD app whose claim to fame is low price and excellent 2D presentation, slap on IFC compatibility and call it a competitor to ArchiCAD and Revit. That is a sure way to disappoint.

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"They," as in NNA don't. NAG do.

If NNA are going to go down this whole BIM route then they're going to need a decent building modeler.

You can't just take a CAD app whose claim to fame is low price and excellent 2D presentation, slap on IFC compatibility and call it a competitor to ArchiCAD and Revit. That is a sure way to disappoint.

I don't think the critical issue is building modeling for BIM (that's not to say I don't think building modeling is the wave of the future).

BIM is information modeling, and the critical part is the ability to link information to items in the drawing database.

Without dynamic connections to outside information you can't really scale BIM across diverse platforms. So long as every piece of information has to reside within vectorworks in static form or has to be exported from its native application, Vectorworks is at a severe disadvantage.

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The thing is offices like ours could be taking the critical first step of transitioning to 3D and learning the ins and out and taking advantage of desktop BIM, i.e. producing our documentation from a model. We could still collaborate as we do now, via PDF and DWG.

Interoperability with 3rd parties using the model is something that is out of our hands and further down the track.

Building modelling now is critical because it allows us to get on and up-skill to desktop BIM so we're ready when the interoperability pieces of the puzzle are put together.

As it stands we're paralysed in a 2D workflow.

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After 20+ years of desktop 3d cad software, I don't think the lack of any particular feature (or group of features) is what's keeping your firm 2d.

And, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a 2d approach.

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After 20+ years of desktop 3d cad software, I don't think the lack of any particular feature (or group of features) is what's keeping your firm 2d.
Yes I'm sure some random Windows-crusader architect on the internets from Alabama America is the perfect judge of what's keeping our firm in 2D.

And, in my opinion, there's nothing wrong with a 2d approach.
There's nothing "wrong" with drawing everything in pencil on boards or scratching it in the dust either.

All of which completely misses the point. Either NNA wants to compete with Revit/ArchiCAD or they don't. If they do then they're going to need decent building modeling capabilities. Cheap just ain't going to cut it.

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Either NNA wants to compete with Revit/ArchiCAD or they don't. If they do then they're going to need decent building modeling capabilities. Cheap just ain't going to cut it.

......or they just keep on developing their 'own' product without bothering about who they are (supposed to be) 'competing' with or not.

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The thing is offices like ours could be taking the critical first step of transitioning to 3D and learning the ins and out and taking advantage of desktop BIM, i.e. producing our documentation from a model. We could still collaborate as we do now, via PDF and DWG.

Collaboration and compatibility with 3rd parties using the model is something that is out of our hands and further down the track.

Building modelling now is critical because it allows us to get on and up-skill to desktop BIM so we're ready when the other bits and pieces of the puzzle are put together.

As it stands we're paralysed in a 2D workflow.

......paralysis certainly seems to be the right word, having followed your views/posts the last year or so.......it seems your 'company' is waiting for the perfect single 3D modelling BIM solution to adapt to, I personally believe this will never be, once they get over the current hurdels for the current apps some new better (half functioning) solutions will be offered and you'll always be on square one. Is the glas half full or half empty?

If i remember correctly the first 'critical' step to 3D happened about 10 years ago with Point.

Edited by Vincent C

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The old head in the sand trick.

I'm just not a follow the crowd kind of guy......i hope VW isn't either.

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it seems your 'company' is waiting for the perfect single 3D modelling BIM solution to adapt to
No, you're quite wrong. No idea why you think that.

I'm just not a follow the crowd kind of guy......i hope VW isn't either.
NNA bills VW as the designer's BIM app (a concept I love and buy into a great deal) but compared to something like ArchiCAD it's more like a computer programmer's BIM app. VW may well provide the designer with great design presentation tools but it doesn't provide good design tools. To be a designer's BIM app it needs to get out of the way so the designer can get on with designing. Designers are interested in the result, not the process by how they get there. Only geeks are interested in this. The only way I can see it getting out of the way of the designer is to become a good building modeler. Maybe I'm lacking vision but I've not seen a better concept and nor do I believe NNA has one.

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NNA bills VW as the designer's BIM app (a concept I love and buy into a great deal) but compared to something like ArchiCAD it's more like a computer programmer's BIM app. VW may well provide the designer with great presentation tools but it doesn't provide good design tools. To be a designer's BIM app it needs to get out of the way so the designer can get on with designing.

HEAR! HEAR!

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Last I checked, the principles of inertia and economics aren't suspended in London.

Yes I'm sure some random Windows-crusader architect on the internets from Alabama America is the perfect judge of what's keeping our firm in 2D.

When a business model works, a sensible person is circumspect when considering modifications.

Switching to Geewhiz CAD 2112 will be evaluated not only against Geewhiz CAD 2111 but against institutional knowledgebase, talent on staff, training budget, and team dynamics.

Cheap just ain't going to cut it.

Apparently it does with your directors...even if they are in London.

Edited by brudgers

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