The need for speed

[Christiaan]

Having experienced another CAD/BIM package recently?which shall remain nameless?one thing that has become hugely apparent is speed. Specifically the slowness with which VW deals with the insertion or editing of parametric objects and the viewing of 3D models in general.

The difference is truly stark. One works instantly when doing anything. The other can take tens of seconds just to place an object.

I doubt tweaking and gradual improvements are going to solve this problem. Something fundamental needs to change in VW it seems to me.

[AndiACD]

As i keep on saying, VW desperately needs a "Ground Up Rebuild"!!

The Cretaceous ended some time ago.

[Christiaan]

I don't know what it needs Andi. Maybe it doesn't need a rebuild, maybe there's just one aspect of the way it works that causes this problem? But it's obviously something fundamental.

[AndiACD]

i've played around with several different CAD solutions and to be honest they all manage much more complicated redraws and mods very much quicker than VW can manage a similar task.

Parasolids has now been included at the base of VW and those i've used make quicker use of this tech. Why is that?

[grant_PD]

interesting....I was talking to a rep at VW the other day, and asked him if 2009 was faster and more responsive than 2008 (which I'm still on). His reply was a very confident yes. Have either of you noticed that this is not the case?

[michaelk]

On my computer 2009 runs noticeably faster than 2008.

michaelk

[brudgers]

Screen redraws...hmmmm.

Maybe it has something to do with the way the graphics subsystem is implimented?

[Christiaan]

On my computer 2009 runs noticeably faster than 2008.

Yes I have noticed the improvement, and my comment still stands.

[islandmon]

It could also have something to do with the fundamental scaleability of VW compared to other CAD apps.

With VW you can instantly zoom in to 1x10^-9 without hesitation and rescale the entire page on the fly.

Whereas if the page-space was set to 1:1 then redraw could be much more easily managed by ignoring all those pesky decimals.

Processing the frame would then become 'selection specific' and require more time to page-out depending on the area selected.

For example ... try dumbing down VW to 2d/3d conversion = Low/Low ( this may not apply to ParaSolids... ? ) .. then set the page scale to 1:1 for the file entire ...

you should notice a significant speed increase over all.

[Christiaan]

Oh yeah I just noticed ArchiCAD only zooms to 1000%. It does zoom faster than VW though. And if that's the problem I'll take the limit in zooming over slowness any day.

[Pat Stanford]

Another speed hint is to group objects. A huge part of the redraw speed is drawing the object highlighting/selection handles. If you group a bunch of objects, then you only get a single set of handles/highlighting rather than every object.

[Christiaan]

That's fine Pat but tweaking the way we work is not going to give us the responsiveness experienced in other apps.

[grant_PD]

I've been using the group trick for a while. On this last project, I noticed that VW was unable to handle the grouping when there were groups within groups within groups. I would make a change and VW would kick me out of the group. I also feel that the lack in redraw speed has something to do with the graphics card. On my MAC I have a lesser video card compared to my Vista machine. The redraws on the Mac are, quite frankly, scary. Objects will drop in or out depending on the level of zoom, palettes will disappear on a major redraw, etc.

I feel there's some level of bloat in the software, and some level of hardware malfunction. But, to take Christaan's side, I don't have issues with say...Cinema4d, that I do with VW.

[brudgers]

If I had to guess, Vectorworks is largely relying on Quickdraw which even Apple is phasing out in favor of Quartz.

Right now it appears that Vectorworks is mixing graphics API's on both platforms (quickdraw + quartz on the Mac, quickdraw + GDI on windows).

Maybe I'm wrong, but this doesn't really seem like the most efficient approach.

[Christiaan]

I also feel that the lack in redraw speed has something to do with the graphics card.

Maybe, but the point is I don't have the same problems using different software (on the same hardware). It's got to have something to do with the software.

[Christiaan]

If I had to guess, Vectorworks is largely relying on Quickdraw which even Apple is phasing out in favor of Quartz.

Good thought but presumably this wouldn't account for the delays one can experience when placing or editing a stair for instance (or even just selecting the tool!). When placing or editing such objects in the other software in question there's not even a hint of a delay. It's feels like it's done before you click the button compared to VW!

[brudgers]

If everything you see runs through quickdraw, then it could affect any part of the program.

From what I've seen regarding the particular "other software" you used to mention with frequency, it appears to use quicktime/quickdraw only for some peripheral functions (like VR files). This is based on the directX 9 requirement on the windows side and some things I saw on their wiki.

[AndiACD]

interesting....I was talking to a rep at VW the other day, and asked him if 2009 was faster and more responsive than 2008 (which I'm still on). His reply was a very confident yes. Have either of you noticed that this is not the case?

Can't really say, i only used 2008 for a short period. In some aspects is is faster than previous versions but in many others it is just as slow if not slower than those i have.

[AndiACD]

I also feel that the lack in redraw speed has something to do with the graphics card.

Maybe, but the point is I don't have the same problems using different software (on the same hardware). It's got to have something to do with the software.

i don't have redraw issues with any other software. VW seems to be out on it's own there.