Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Vincent C

PC or Mac

Recommended Posts

Guest jkelly
While every PC doesn't have iEEE 1394, in absolute numbers I wouldn't be surprised if there are more PC's with firewire than Macs. For example, except for the lowest end machines, most HP laptops have it (my five year old zd7160 has it as well). Dell's bottom end XPS laptop has it, as does their $479 Vostro laptop and $279 Vostro desktop.

All Macs have firewire except the Macbook Air, to my knowledge. If by absolute you mean using total units sold instead of percentages, yes, you'd be right, but more PCs have keyboards than Macs if we use that method.

Consumer Electronics stores always try to make money on cables. Surely you've experienced that at Office Depot, Best Buy, or someplace similar. The difference is that with a standard product you can hop over to Radioshack and compare prices. Even in Manhattan, I doubt there are many places that stock mini displayport to dvi connectors.

I know you can get them at Best Buy. Only Apple's version last time I checked, but the third-party manufacturer's versions just came out last month, so if they aren't there already it's only a matter of time.

There are any number of reasons why a specific proposed configuration may not make it to a final standard, as anyone involved in a standards drafting process can attest. Proprietary specifications is just one of them. Obviously "mini connector" was used in lieu of "mini displayport" for some reason. Speculation that it was careless language is certainly no more credible than speculation that it was carefully crafted to reflect the drafting body's intent.

It was used when talking about *displayport*. How can mini connector when discussing displayport mean anything but mini displayport? Again, the overwhelming evidence supports mini displayport as Apple uses it to be in the next VESA standard. Is it a 100% certainty? Of course not, it hasn't happened yet. But let's just say you'd be crazy to bet against it.

Your N card will work fine on B and G and your B and G cards will work fine on an N network. Maybe someone makes a wireless N router that's not backward compatible to B and N...but even Apple knows better.

802.11n *hardware* is being sold before the 802.11n spec is finalized. Your b/g (and a, actually) card will work on a pre-N router because the pre-N routers have 802.11a/b/g on them. They don't work with the actual n standard itself. Above you claimed that standards can change before release. If that's a problem with mini-displayport, that's a problem with draft N. To discuss whether you can connect an N card to a a/b/g router or the other way around is conflating two different issues.

Unless you have something new to say on this issue, I suggest it just be dropped. Your posts are just a repetition of claims that you've already aired. People can decide for themselves whether they think your argument has merit.

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a Mac user at home and a Windows user at the office. I would have chosen the Mac over the PC because of its user-friendliness. It wouldn't matter if I had to pay extra for a non-standard patch cord. The Mac is worth it.

I would have preferred to stick with the Amiga which made even the Mac look klunky but, unfortunately, Amigas are gone forever.

Share this post


Link to post
I would have preferred to stick with the Amiga which made even the Mac look klunky but, unfortunately, Amigas are gone forever.

My Amiga 500 and Analog RGB monitor were just over $1000 in 1987. The Mac II with color and a monitor would probably set you back at least five times as much...and only give you 256 colors (rather than 4096 out of 16m).

Share this post


Link to post

There are several promotions/competitions running here at any given moment, either through newspapers or trade journals.

As of today, one has an iPhone as the prize, one has a selection of iPods, another has a Mac laptop. None are offering any other brand of phone, or Zunes, or PC's.

Why is that, do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
There are several promotions/competitions running here at any given moment, either through newspapers or trade journals.

As of today, one has an iPhone as the prize, one has a selection of iPods, another has a Mac laptop. None are offering any other brand of phone, or Zunes, or PC's.

Why is that, do you think?

Because Apple provides them for free?

Using ipods and iphones as evidence of the Mac's technical superiority?

You forgot to mention that Mac's are technically superior because the only come in white.

--- Edit

For what it's worth, right now Microsoft is selling almost as many Xbox360's as all Mac's combined (330,000 xbox's last month v. 1.14m Mac's in Quarter one).

Edited by brudgers

Share this post


Link to post

I like Aston Martins. Oh, wait up wrong thread...

I mean I like Macs, I mean PC's.....aww whatever!! Just give me something that works!

Share this post


Link to post

Wouldn't it be great if somebody started making computers that actually work!?! :)

I hope your Aston Martin doesn't crash too often............

Edited by Vincent C

Share this post


Link to post

Well I have been drooling over the new Aston Martin 'One-77'. And at the price (about a million pounds), I couldn't afford to crash it! That said it is a piece of pure engineering artistry! (That, to be honest, probably would spend a bit of time in the workshop). Check it out! This is what design is! http://www.one-77.com/

As far as crashing, I have selected not to include my signature, as I use one thing at work - that has crashed all day, and another at home. Running both OS's via Bootcamp at home, I definitely find VW runs better, on one (not mentioned) variety of OS since it can give Vectorworks more memory, and runs it's PDF abstraction layer natively (that VW relies on), which I find improves pan and zoom redraw times, and makes for a more stable environment. Also I find that OS key shortcuts make getting around said unmentioned OS quicker to navigate for someone like myself who scoots around at speed. Having worked in both environments, I can say in my experience, that I estimate at least a 10%, if not 20% hit in productivity for those not running unmentioned OS. Although, I suspect at least half of this productivity loss has been to do with skimping on hardware budget. Which kind of make the cheaper argument void. Unfortunately things cost money.

Then there are other issues that are non-OS, but purely VW idiosyncrasies, like preferences suddenly changing. That said, those have gotten much better in the later releases.

So it is all swings and round-a-bout's, but I know what I would choose to get things done.

Also I do find it a tad bizarre that architects can get all flustered about thinking that it could be outrageous that a person should pay a premium for an item that has been beautifully designed (on either platform). We charge for our designs, and expect people to pay for our time. If I create something that adds so much value beyond the raw materials, that it greatly improves a persons life, and that people are prepared to pay for, then why not charge. That is brilliant design, versus what is mundane and ordinary, and should be paid a premium for. (As far as my wife's penchant for Louis Vuitton luggage is concerned - that is certainly in the eye of the beholder, as I don't see the value - not that I can afford it).

And maybe that is it...

It is all in the eye of the beholder. That is why I married my wife, and not someone else. And that is why I choose what I choose. Have we finished this now?

Share this post


Link to post

Vincent, I just checked out your site. Nice work...understated, simple, elegant and warm. Well done. Unfortunately I don't understand Svensk.

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post

Nice!

Seeing i started this i can confirm that my query has definitely been answered.

I guess i've just got tired of Windows/PC, time to give Mac/OSX a chance.......talk to you in 3 years time about this again.

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks Diamond, we don't have any foreign clients so no need for english texts.....sorry. ....here's some more that i've done privately 'on the side' ;)http://web.telia.com/~u95404491/ haven't been able to update with more pictures yet though.

Send me some pictures of your One-77 when you get it :) !

Edited by Vincent C

Share this post


Link to post

I can dream! ;)

But seriously, what ever you choose, get married when you do! The only way I ever got anywhere with VW was to not use any other for a good while, and give it a proper chance. Same with Mac or PC. Get immersed, otherwise there will be always something on the other that you will miss, and that will totally ruin the whole experience. There is nothing worse than being in a place, and wishing you were somewhere else the whole time.

Some are afraid they may miss out if they lessen their options, but in reality totally new doors are opened up (and using the example of marriage) that are more fulfilling because there is no half measure, far less wasted time or heart space, and total freedom from the haunting what-ifs of mediocrity.

Enjoy.

Share this post


Link to post

Too late, i'm already a bigamist! But i hear you!

When i was first introduced to VW (11) i was using Bentley Microstation, recently (2 years ago) i got employed at my current office where we work with ArchiCAD, but I've made up my mind to be committed to VW :) (i bought it privately which proves quite a lot i think!)

Unfortunately AC has taken Europe by storm and VW is relatively unknown, and you know what they say about the unknown!

Share this post


Link to post

Sometimes there is no getting around the multiple CAD apps. It is my theory that people can only do 2 apps really well. Any more and productivity really hurts. There has been a certain thinking that says that computers make our lives easier, but in my experience, especially with what clients expect from us these days (montages, fly-throughs etc.), apps get ever more complicated, and harder to be knowledgeable. Hence why I think to be a real pro, I would only choose about 2-3 apps to really know well.

I think CAD apps on the same OS would be far easier to get around than different apps on different OS's. I used to use AutoCAD years ago, and was trying to learn VW on the Mac at same time. Hard going. But on one OS, the keys are pretty much in the same position in each app, so that helps (esp the Shift, Alt- key combinations).

I have nothing against ArchiCAD - Esp now it is part of the Nemetschek family. Great program from what I hear (even if on the expensive side), but I am thankful for VW. Suits me fine. Also my wife is in the theatre + film world, so there is great crossover there.

Anyway, it will be good to hear how you get on.

Share this post


Link to post

True, i don't think i have ever gotten so far as to be able to boast that i have used an apps total capacity, both through lack of time/money and because of all the changes (between different apps and all the upgrades) i can only imagine the potential capabilities of for example knowing Vectorscript.

We'll see what the future brings but i don't think there will be any radical jumps/changes within my active carrier at least, but like you said 'one can dream!'

Share this post


Link to post
All Macs have firewire except the Macbook Air, to my knowledge. If by absolute you mean using total units sold instead of percentages, yes, you'd be right, but more PCs have keyboards than Macs if we use that method.

How can something so ubiquitous be "realatively rare?" It costs Dell the same nickle that it costs Apple to put a firewire port on the motherboard, they just don't claim it's some great feature. As for keyboards, one doesn't need "that method." Apple sells their least expensive computers without one (and without a mouse)...again, you can't just take it out of the box and run it (Apple keyboard and mouse $99).

I know you can get them at Best Buy. Only Apple's version last time I checked, but the third-party manufacturer's versions just came out last month, so if they aren't there already it's only a matter of time.

That's pure speculation...particularly since Best Buy doesn't even have non-apple parts on their website. Sure they might devote shelf space in the store to two brands of mini displayport adaptors. But you'ld have to be crazy to bet on it...

It was used when talking about *displayport*. How can mini connector when discussing displayport mean anything but mini displayport? Again, the overwhelming evidence supports mini displayport as Apple uses it to be in the next VESA standard. Is it a 100% certainty? Of course not, it hasn't happened yet. But let's just say you'd be crazy to bet against it.

A slide stating "mini connector" and an unsourced article in The Register hardly constitute overwhelming evidence.

Again, the presenter might have meant "mini displayport" as offered for license by apple, and merely been sloppy in editing his slide. The presenter might have pointedly not used "mini displayport" beacause, although it is overwelmingly probable that Apples configuration will be the standard it is not certain. And of course the presenter might have used "mini connector" because there are factors which make it unlikely that the connector will be the "mini displayport." Practical reasons that a committee might not adopt apples configuration could relate to concerns over existing patents, future licenses, or technical issues. That's why there's a standardards process.

802.11n *hardware* is being sold before the 802.11n spec is finalized. Your b/g (and a, actually) card will work on a pre-N router because the pre-N routers have 802.11a/b/g on them. They don't work with the actual n standard itself. Above you claimed that standards can change before release. If that's a problem with mini-displayport, that's a problem with draft N. To discuss whether you can connect an N card to a a/b/g router or the other way around is conflating two different issues.

My claim was that the connector is non-standard. From the time of it's rollout to today, it is and has been. When you brought the red herring of the draft N into the discussion, I merely pointed out the significant difference of the near universal backward compatiblity in its implimentations as a meaningful difference in the experience of the user.

Unless you have something new to say on this issue, I suggest it just be dropped. Your posts are just a repetition of claims that you've already aired. People can decide for themselves whether they think your argument has merit.

There's plenty of tosh with every Mac.

Share this post


Link to post
Guest jkelly

As I said, without anything new to say on this issue, there is no reason to continue posting in this thread.

So as to not allow various inaccuracies you've raised to stand, and of course to ensure you don't feel neglected, I've responded to you via PM.

On the off chance someone actually cares to see the conversation (doubtful) I'd be happy to include them on the PM message thread.

But our conversation's relevance to this thread passed a long time ago.

Share this post


Link to post

Obviously criticism of the Mac platform is anathema, and unsubstantiated claims about Windows are perfectly accceptable to NNA staff members.

Share this post


Link to post

Or Vectorworks 2009 vs. Revit 2010. The tally of responses to the latest Revit recalls the cool response to Windows Vista. No one could justify paying for an overhauled GUI.

Share this post


Link to post

from: http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=123635Post123635

Indeed you could get a little more memory. If a rendering on Win reaches its 1.5 limit, then you might have too little for the rest of the machine. You have a total of 2GB.

Nevertheless, when I had to do large renderings (models with over 250MB and some heavy realistic textures) I had no other way than render on Mac. Win didn't manage them.

* win: max memory for one application 1.5GB

* mac: max memory for one application 3.0GB

Here, the faster the processor the better.

As a whole, for largish renderings you might be compelled to leave Renderworks. It pains me to say this, but is true.

orso

This would a BIG determining factor as to which one is the best to buy for VW.

Does anyone know why the max memory is different across the two platforms.

Is this so with other tipe of applications aswell, like Photoshop, Corel, C4D, Artlantis, Blender??

If VW is the only one, then why??

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

 

7150 Riverwood Drive, Columbia, Maryland 21046, USA   |   Contact Us:   410-290-5114

 

© 2018 Vectorworks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Vectorworks, Inc. is part of the Nemetschek Group.

×