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Public request to restore forum access for a banned user

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There is a user, a user since many many years, someone with whom we long-term VW-addicts shared countless discussions.

We'd like to have him back.

For all he gave to the VW community. Since so many years.

Let please one of the most charming brains in this community share with us again, we need such people. In the good and the bad. We are not tired of reading his posts.

Whatever happened, it cannot have been that bad. Consider.

thank you,

orso b. schmid

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Speaking for those of us who may be the next in line ... the loss of one is a loss to all.

These Forums are not a perfect venue... but they do provide a valuable service to both NNA and the VW Community.

Nevertheless, this Community of Users is NOT the Company nor is it simply free techsupport provided by a bunch of Do-Good Lackys with nothing better to do.

We are, in fact, a separate Professional International Brother/Sisterhood with our own unique needs and encouragements.

Keeping in mind that a casual comment in one culture may be a severe insult in another.

What am I missing ? I troll these forums daily and find nothing abhorrent or bizarre... mostly just boring old Q&A and endless bug reports.

Sociology teaches us that the threat of exclusion from the group is a powerful dis-incentive to active participation, and ... typically ... sows the seeds of group apathy.

For example, last week I included the common term ' CAD prostitute' in a short satirical post responding to a person who is NOT even a licensed User of VW

and who was posting negative comments about this Community's unwillingness to do his work for him ( even though, there were numerous positive suggestions proferred ).

Of course, my post was deleted ... while all of his remain in the court record.

Considering that like many others, the majority of my replies are composed while working on my own projects and NEVER actually get submitted,

now I am reluctant to participate at any level whatsoever ( just a waste of my precious time ).

In this regard ...the olde saying still holds, " You never know what you are missing".

When the next 'Moderator' shows up on the scene, he can start housekeeping chores by editing out all the 'objectionable & unworthy content' based on a keyword search for 'CAD Monkey' , ' Acad ' , or something.

Logically, it's even more efficient to simply delete ALL posts from the banned Users. He is now 'officially banned' ... TRASH everything he ever submitted... end of story.

Thereby... further fragmenting... the stream... of User... consciousness.

A more proactive approach is to assign flags to content and let the individual User decide on the appropriateness.

When was the last time any of us posted an objection to another User's active participation ?

Since we are now in the editing & excision phase of Forum Life...

maybe, it is time Users started rating the Moderators' performances with thumbs up or thumbs down.

( using VW DL>VP>image export... I created a culturally correct funny & clever graphic of this rating system using a finger instead of a thumb ...

but will not post it here for fear of being banned for Life... you can use your imagination ; )

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Now you're just sounding like a cranky old man.... Cheer up and relax. I'm trying to, but the level of "shrillness" going on lately (I'm assuming due to the general anxiety level everyone is feeling these days) has made it difficult.

At times, I readily admit, I have succumbed to using a heavy hand, dealing with topics and users, but never with any relish. We established the Terms of Service and Community Guidelines to make it clear to everyone inside and outside NNA what this resource is and what everyone's expectations should be. This was supposed to decrease any intervention on the part of NNA staff and maintain consistency no matter who was moderating or administering the Board. That seemed to go to heck in a handbasket lately. I fully admit fault in much of that.

This board operates at its best when cooler heads and tongues prevail. It is at its worst both to the users and the general public who can all observe, when egos and passions help discussions spiral out of control.

The behavior of some users have crossed the line because they were very targeted besides being contrary to a more congenial atmosphere. In the future, as in the past, these users will be back to contribute again after cooling down. But there is always a consequence for a being part of a Community and not following the rules. It obviously taking some time and pain for everyone to learn how to deal with this new reality.

Edited by Jeffrey W Ouellette
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I must have missed the action and I'm not 100% sure who we're talking about.

But we've been down this road before and I think I can guess.

I would like him back. I've had so many usefull discussions with him in his various incarnations dating back almost a decade.

He is a valuable and active user of the vScript forum. Recently there was more useful discourse there than we've seen for a very long time, but it mysteriously dried up after the 12th. I was wondering what happened. I dare say that in that forum at least we could use more like him.

I understand that he's a difficult case, but strict enforcement of the Terms of Use runs the risk of creating a nanny-state.

We're (mostly) adults here and can fend for ourselves, can't we?

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I'm sorry "Orso" but I, among many others, do not share your perspective of this user being "charming". He is smart, knowledgeable and very useful to the community, but he can reek havoc in an instant when he intentionally goes after other users he deems "beneath" himself. That is unacceptable. The forum is not place to demean other users with such an acid tongue and attitude.

Further participation may require that he is limited to the VS forum, only. But it will be a matter of time before this happens. He's done it in the past before and everyone has dealt with the consequences.

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The problem is that many people who have been around longer have a different perspective on his behavior. Some are more tolerant (a bit too much, if you ask me). Some new users don't wish to be confronted with such behavior. They have different expectations of interaction on this board. The Community Guidelines are meant to ensure an atmosphere in which newcomers are as comfortable as veterans when exposing themselves to their need for knowledge or advice. It is an invitation to participate and focus on the issues of VW use, not egos and personality conflicts.

Is "do unto others" really that hard to understand or too much to expect?

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Now you're just sounding like a cranky old man....

Attempt at humor:

"You impudent whipper-snapper! Moderators come and go, but the cranky old men of the forum go on and on ....and on......and.....where's my soup?!"

You're probably right about all this Jeffrey. I've had a few donnybrooks with The Fightin' Finn myself. I really wish he could learn to suppress the urge to kill.

And sorry about the nanny-state crack. It's gotta be a tough job when faced with this kind of horse-*#%*. It truly does get out of hand from time to time and I really do agree that we're better off without the inter-personal haggling. It's not a pretty sight.

Over the years I've seen some very fine forums rendered useless by in-fighting and flame-wars. I certainly don't want to see that happen here.

BTW: The general public can observe? Yikes! I'll keep that in mind...

Edited by ccroft
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He should not have been banned.

He offers incredible knowledge, sometimes humour and also sometimes other negatives, but mostly they are minor

Whilst he may not respond - who knows has anyone fron NNA tried to have a chat with him to gain a more positive input?

The good old US of A

Land of free speech

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Simple. He broke the rules. He knew them, he accepted them, and he still broke them. He used defamatory language that offended a newer user, multiple times, and he would not relent. It is not about zero-tolerance, it's about general tolerence, for and from EVERYBODY who participates. If a new user doesn't know something, he or she shouldn't be subjected to ridicule, verbal abuse or baiting, because they are looking for help and don't know as much as thinks he does.

Again, he has a wealth of knowledge, he just can't seem to help himself, so why foster, encourage, or tolerate his capricious intolerance? He is a fine contributor in the VS forum, for the most part, but when he steps outside, he's always loaded for bear.

Can't we learn something from this painful episode, put it behind us, and move on?

Edited by Jeffrey W Ouellette
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Jeffrey, indeed is a personality "issue".

This last banning shouldn't have happened.

This time it occurred because of BIM. And because of speaking about other CAD applications: one got banned, others got warned to go to other forums.

Please don't underestimate the effect: while "bad" postings have been removed, your one remains and unfortunately it seems that in this forum nobody may speak about other applications. Is this good?

You are -more than all of us- aware that this looks scary for new -and old- users. Much more deeply bad than anything our "bad guy" user could ever write.

Purge and censor and banning and on top of it public discredit. What kind of association does it bring?

While you declaredly feel a Nemetschekian, and probably are, please never forget that we are not. We don't feel racistic insulted by reading about other CADs.

I hope you will be able to restore a community feeling among your users. If not because you like it, just because it serves you well: each singular user is your door-to-door apostle. This forum is where you breed them.

Give a check to the public forums of the early Diehl days. Your strongest pack of "believers" built at that time. It lasted up to this very day, but is disaggregating now. Why? Can you afford this?

And BTW our "bad user" was there too. Exactly in the same fashion as today.




I think that perhaps a forum dedicated to compare VW to other applications would be an excellent idea, as suggested by Christiaan.

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Jeffrey, Me thinks with regard to this issue you are between a rock and a hard place and I do not envy you one bit - comes with the territory no doubt

Can't we learn something from this painful episode, put it behind us, and move on?

I really wonder

Trying to make something good out of something bad

This is a Community Board and yet NNA I think provides the only moderator / moderators

this Community of Users is NOT the Company nor is it simply free techsupport provided by a bunch of Do-Good Lackys with nothing better to do.

Sociology teaches us that the threat of exclusion from the group is a powerful dis-incentive to active participation, and ... typically ... sows the seeds of group apathy.

Are there others who know him and know him well? Can they provide influence or help?

Beyond that could some senior forum members who are not NNA staffers be involved as a board if you like to look into and help resolve these sorts of issues

In other words if a user does something that justifies being banned ? sure let the moderator immediately do that but have a safe guard of trusted long term users attempting to provide other means of dealing with the issue ? a cooling off period, they discussing issues with the person banned, whatever??

Of course if the offender will not listen the ban stays ? but can there be another way?

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we're talking about petri,

in his many guises, and

grandmother has also warned

me off baiting him.

he's a pain in the

but i've learned more from him,

than almost anyone else, and

also been insulted by him more

than anyone else, but i'd

prefer he was not 'disappeared'

every time he offended 's


maybe it is time for an

alternative forum

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I'd like to weigh in here, because I too have been the recipient of this unique method of communication by the suggested individual. I also have read a lot of his posts and I have been helped by his comments, even if it meant suffering through the occasional belittlement. I can live with that. To me, it's part of internet bulletin boards. It's very easy for all of us to sit at our computers and type out "what we really think", but in reality we would probably never say to someone face to face at a dinner party or business function. And that has always been the measure by which I try to frame my posts. Would I say the same thing in person? That's an easy guideline to live by and I'm certain has saved me from embarrassment. That said, and to paraphrase Tom Waits, if we throw out the devils, the angels will go too.

I was recently involved in a thread where I felt I was voicing my opinions and I was censured for it. I recall my exact feeling at the time: well, I guess I'd better only say nice things about VW or risk getting thrown out.

That doesn't feel like a forum.

Let me quote from this board's own Community Use Guidelines:

Nemetschek North America provides this web-based service as a user community peer-support resource. The forums are for free discussion and exchange of information, experiences and expertise with other users of NNA products.

I'd like to second Ozzie's suggestion. I think it's a reasonable way to go. I think a "board" of moderators that includes non-NNA staff be selected. Yes, NNA may own the servers and run the board, but I ask, doesn't promoting a sense of fellowship bode well for future sales of the product than creating a monoculture where participants fear saying the wrong thing?

Democratize the moderation board and I think you'll be onto something. Not only would it relieve the moderator of being the fulcrum of discomfort, but it could also serve to potentially expand this service into something even better.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

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I never comment on a thread where Petri holds sway as I expect to be insulted. He regularly jumps on newer Community Board users. We old timers know what's coming and stay away but we are complicit in helping him sting others if we never respond. Don't get mad at Jeffery for calling out this bad behavior.

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there's a difference between being "calling

out" and "pulling a unilateral"

having grown up in a state that did a lot of

the latter, i cherish getting to see + hear

the other side, no matter how distasteful

corporate drones punting the party line

are every bit as painful as a snotty one

liner from petri...

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Now you're just sounding like a cranky old man....

Wow !

Is that a put-down coming from the self-righteous young Moderator.

Yes .. you are quite right .. last Sunday I turned 60 yrs old.

The previous week I swam 10 ocean miles and ran 20 during my daily work outs.

I'll put my crankiness up against your pettiness anytime anywhere ... bring it on.

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Pity all of this - people having to justify their 'soundness' with such correct justifications

Islandmon out of so many of the posters on this board you are amazing - others would echo that sentiment

When I first began using VW you gave me a tip that profoudly changed my attitude to the software and forced me to buckle up and get on with it - thanks

For your posts to be censored in any way is tragic

In another post I wrote

Good old US of A

What about free speech

A suggestion that maybe goes to the heart of the matter

There are many senior long time posters to this Community Board who offer endless streams of advice to new users and those learning that

Without them and others the Board would not survive

NNA owns the Board and would be concerned if things go wrong it may be negative or right postive but without the Community this board would not exist

Logic says to me if someone is banned or something is censored - that desicion should in part come from agreed to rules that are defined by users as well as NNA - a COMMUNITY

Are there senior long time posters living in different geographic locations and time zones who could monitor and if necessary given a strict set of rules be decision makers in

the process

A vote every year to put into place say four

In extreme circumstance NNA could have a veto

A banned user would therfore know it was not just NNA but in fact Community members who turfed them or censored their post

The rules would have to be rigorous

Just a thought

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