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CARMELHILL

64 bit or 32 bit computer system

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Last week we grouped two A4 imported Pdfs and on our old Dual Core with 2 GB Ram and 256 MB graphics could not rotate or move it without a crash

I have this on my laptop but not my desktop. For me, it was related to my zoom % - the more I zoomed in, the more chance that the rotate/move would crash - the amount seemed to be about 300% zoom, above 300% zoom, VW would crash, without fail.

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I didn't hear anything about VW 2010 taking advantage of 64 bit program. I did ask Tech Support before buying my computer and they said they had no plans to rework the software. But the advantage of larger RAM makes me a beleiver in Vista 64.

My only complaint so far....I can't get Favorites to stay in my Resource Browser. I had them but they keep disappearing. Trying to work it out but I might send an email to Bug Submitto see if this is a know problem that they have duplicated.

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Take the 64 bit rumor that I posted with some wariness. While told that by someone I thought would know, it still qualifies as just a rumor. I shouldn't have posted it, as such.

But, for anyone in the market for a new computer, it would be interesting to know. I gather that the memory of a 64 bit, dual processor, etc. would more than make up for the 5% speed loss of running a 32 bit program like VW, but it would be nice to know what future specs might be, assuming you would be the type to upgrade to the newest version of VW.

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If 64bit and multi-core support (and 3d dimensions :) )isn't part of VW2010, I would be really dissappointed. The future of computers are multiple cores and large memory usage. If VW isn't going to be part of that future, it makes me think how "forward thinking" Nemetschek NA is.

Cinema 4d is 64bit.

Maxwell is 64bit.

Fryrender is 64bit.

Vray is 64bit.

Although I don't use it, Archicad is 64bit.

Vectorworks is holding me back. We need to move forwood and be a pace setter rather than following others.

True, native, 64 bit, 64 bit, 64 bit, 64 bit,...Please

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One of the issues with the transition to 64bits is Vectorworks reliance on Quicktime.

Per the Apple developer website, Quicktime is a "Depricated API" for 64bit development.

Multi-core support is an entirely different issue from 64bits.

Utilizing it is an ongoing process of targeting specific algorithms. This has already been done for parts of renderworks.

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Vectorworks is holding me back. We need to move forwood and be a pace setter rather than following others.

True, native, 64 bit, 64 bit, 64 bit, 64 bit,...Please

Hi Shaun

Apologies in advance of playing devils advocate, but what is it about 32 bit that is holding YOU back? What advantage do you think that 64 bit bring you now? Exactly what 64 bit features are you after?

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Firstly, it shouldn't be for ME to show the benefits of 64bit. Just do a google search and one will discover tons of advantages going forth that way. If one has to ask for the benefits of 64 bit, then I should be very worried. We are in the business where in a lot of ways technology drives that business forward. We should embrace new better technologies.

Anyway some small things that apply directly to me are:

There are 64bit operating systems out there that I want to use. I want to use C4D 64bit. Want to use Maxwell 64bit. I want to use Fryrender 64bit. I want to use Vray 64bit. The only thing of the machine that won't be 64bit is VW and that just isn't right. It won't be making full use of my system-in fact it would be slower than on a 32bit system. Also I want to go into extreme detail of modeling where lots of Ram is essential and I need 64bit for that.

HTH.

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Have these websites mentioned that 64 bit apps can be a lot slower than 32 bit apps?

64 bit apps are an advantage if 32 bit is being a hindrance. Otherwise, 64 bit apps have to move data in coarser chunks (64 bits rather than 32 bits). Unless the application has been fully optimised to work within this limitation, potentially a non trivial task, its going to suffer and it has the potential to suffer in a worse case scenario by 50% although the reality is that will not be the case.

I know this as in my previous life I was a consultant who specialised in porting 32 bit apps to 64 bit platforms for a number of large multinationals and (now not so large) banks. Our hand was forced by a shift in processor availability (32 bit VAX was being replaced by 64 bit Alpha) rather than any desire for speed - probably 20% of the time was to port the app from 32 bit to 64 bit, 50% was optimising the 64 bit app to get it to run as fast as the 32 bit app (without losing significant speed of the 32 bit version) and 30% was testing it. For a legacy application, porting to 64 bit is non trivial and unless it gives any significant benefit, is likely to be detrimental in performance.

There are better and easier ways of getting getting more performance out of a legacy application than simply converting to 64 bit without the detriment of the existing 32 bit customer base. Which is why I asked, what is it about 64 bit that YOU need. You may think that you want 64 bit, but in fact, its not going to give you any benefit and possibly be detrimental.

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Ian,

The VW manual is pretty clear about slower performance using 64 bit computers. I would still want to know what the future holds with WV, being committed to it, and kind of getting close to having to buy a new computer to replace my aging one.

If 2009 runs on 64 bit and 2010 will be designed for it, I would prefer to buy a 64 bit computer since that is clearly the future.

Is there any reason for VW to be coy about their future plans in a pretty basic question area?

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Ian,

The VW manual is pretty clear about slower performance using 64 bit computers. I would still want to know what the future holds with WV, being committed to it, and kind of getting close to having to buy a new computer to replace my aging one.

If 2009 runs on 64 bit and 2010 will be designed for it, I would prefer to buy a 64 bit computer since that is clearly the future.

Is there any reason for VW to be coy about their future plans in a pretty basic question area?

All things being equal Vectorworks code will execute more quickly under a 32 bit operating system.

But it's important to recognize three things:

1. The execution of code is very rarely the slowest link in the chain of getting things done. Usually it's the speed at which the user operates or the selection of a less than optimized workflow by the user.

2. The absolute difference in code execuation speed is often irrelevant to the users experience. Anything that takes longer than about a quarter of a second is more likely to be experienced as a delay. A user cannot tell the difference between an operation that takes 0.00125 seconds and one that takes 0.0010 seconds.

3. Most importantly all things are rarely equal. Typically a Windows x64 computer will have more RAM than its 32bit counterpart and often has other applications running in native x64 mode. This means that more resources (RAM and CPU cycles) are available for Vectorworks.

In my opinion, it is likely to be some time before Vectorworks goes 64bit due to the additional overhead required for dual platform development.

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Ian,

The VW manual is pretty clear about slower performance using 64 bit computers. I would still want to know what the future holds with WV, being committed to it, and kind of getting close to having to buy a new computer to replace my aging one.

If 2009 runs on 64 bit and 2010 will be designed for it, I would prefer to buy a 64 bit computer since that is clearly the future.

Is there any reason for VW to be coy about their future plans in a pretty basic question area?

The VW manual is referring to 32 bit applications running on a 64 bit OS, not a native 64 bit app running on a 64 bit OS. The latter has the potential to be slower, possibly by a significant amount rather than a few %, than its 32 bit counterpart running on a 32 bit app. This is especially true for legacy applications that were designed many years ago that had a different set of design goals - possibly trying to squeeze as much data as possible into as small a RAM requirement.

2010 or whatever it will be called will never be designed for 64 bit short of a total rewrite. Vectorworks is a legacy application designed many years ago. Trying to shoe horn 64 bit functionality into a 32 bit (or even 16 bit) application is a non trivial task and at some point, considerable compromises are going to be made which are likely to largely negate the benefits of having a 64 bit application or totally alienate legacy 32 bit users. There are likely to be far more cost effective ways that Vectorworks can take advantage of the higher specced hardware that is available today than porting it to 64 bit. Hence my comment to Shaun about what bits of a 64 bit app are to him beneficial because there may be ways of achieving his requirements without resorting to the considerable effort and side effects of a 64 bit port.

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As long as we are on the subject, and I am still looking at computers in a preliminary mode, would I be right to premume that newer NVIDEA cards like the GT120 are also fine to run VW?

Since their graphic card recommendations were made last Sept., it seems like Nvidia has been busy with several new models that are now showing up on computers. Or, would it be like Quick Time, where NNA doesn't recommend newer versions?

Lastly, if we wait until the October release of Windows 7, are there likelly to be any OS system issues with VW? I recall Vista had some early.

Thanks in advance for any info you can supply.

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I suspect there won't be much further development of Quicktime.

It's listed as a "depricated API" in Apple's 64bit development guidelines.

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New graphics cards should be fine.

On the PC side, (nearly?) all the issues I've seen have been with older cards not with a newly purchased card.

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As I recall, NNA chose not to pursue cerfication of Vectorworks for Vista compatibility.

Hopefully, they will take a different approach to Windows 7.

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