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Creating Plot and Model Views


J. Miller

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Hello,

Has anyone used the "Create Plot and Model Views" command yet? I heard you could create a "Boom" type position and be able to see all the fixtures in a Plan view without affecting the actual 3D hang. The documentation in help is a bit limited and I would like to see how this really works. Any help would be appreciated (images, files, a better explanation).

Thanks in Advance

Jeff Miller

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I've played around with it. It's something we've all been asking for for a long time. I'm sure it was a programming nightmare. But I think this first try at bat is a "swing and a miss."

Or at least I swung and missed. I'm not sure if it's the command or the documentation that has me confused.

It only seems to work in one direction... vertically. So even sidelight booms get stacked up and down. Although the manual seems to allow for other orientations.

I've tried a couple times with just one boom - just to see how it works. It creates 2 new layers: a model layer and a definition layer (?).

The model layer contains a DLVP (in top/plan view) with all the labels for the instruments, but not the instrument symbols themselves.

The definition layer contains the original objects.

The layer you were working on now contains a DLVP of the definition layer. So the objects you created get moved to a new layer and the current layer gets populated with a DLVP of that new layer.....

There seems to be a difference between invoking the command with objects selected and with nothing selected. Not sure what that difference means.

It's not clear to me what the conditions should be before the command is invoked. Should booms be built accurately in 3D first, so that the instrument data is not readable and then the command will move create a readable 2d DLVP?

Or should the instruments be placed in a readable way, and the command will stack them up in 3D?

And what is the best way to build a vertical position? Instruments will snap to the position, so the entire boom will try to take on the same z value, so it seems there needs to be a work around for that also....

I'd love to find out that I'm an idiot and this is the magic command we've been waiting for. In the mean time, I'll keep doing my own personal DLVP workaround dance.

michaelk

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  • 3 weeks later...

Interesting....

So the work flow is create the units the way you want them to appear in 2D, invoke the command, then rotate the entire position to the correct orientation?

Seems like there would be more futzing around to make sure your boom landed on the deck.

I'll have to play around with this. I'm interested to see what this does to the draw beam command, and where the light comes from if you turn the instrument on, does the z value of the instrument mean anything anymore....

btw - DO NOT try to use the Create Similar Objects command as demonstrated in the video on lighting instruments. There is no way to reset the default. If he had tried to insert another instrument into the drawing - say another S4 PAR- it would have inserted the moving light with the same channel and unit number -all the same parameters - for the rest of the life of this drawing!

I tried it, and Kevin was nice enough to send me a script to reset the instrument defaults.

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OK. I think I get it.

I made a 10' high boom, being careful to draw it with the base at 0,0 and the boom going up the y axis. Verticle was checked.

It worked as expected.

A couple of concerns:

The Z value for all the instruments was 0. Changing it to the correct value messes the whole thing up.

Therefore the draw beam and light on features don't work correctly.

The base of the boom floated about 5" off the deck.

Getting the 3D orientation of the instruments correct needs a little forethought.

Anyone else use this command?

michaelk

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I think all of us have a different approach to setting up a lighting plot / 3d model.

Rock'n Roll Sets just differ from theatrical sets with pipes ect.

In my case, I just use one design layer and put the other stuff like trusses moving lights and conventionel fixtures in different classes.

with the new tool everyhing is different. I have to deal with more layers.

The biggest problem for me is to involve non spotlight instruments like a stage wich I normaly create as an extrude in the model layer.

I could not see the "keep seperate" or something option in the dialog box working??????

Cool Tool but more explaination needed!

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Jim

I agree. More documentation needed.

Imagine ground supported truss with 4 upright trusses full of fixtures.

Added to the workflow:

-An additional 8 layers that have to be carefully named so you can keep track of them. (especially confusing if they are symmetric or if you have multiple identical booms)

-Drawing the uprights on their sides and then carefully positioning them after invoking the command. (Or drawing the in the correct 3d position first and then correcting the 2D portion)

-Repositioning all the instruments on the truss to be in the correct cord of the truss and in the correct orientation.

Advantages:

-Ability to position the 2D booms anywhere on the drawing while the 3D stays in the correct place.

-Live link between 2D & 3D representations.

Disadvantages:

-None of those instruments would be able to draw their beam correctly

-None of those instruments could be used as light sources for rendering

-Light plot layer doesn't have the instruments on it. More navigation needed to edit boom units.

All that being said, it seems like a reasonable approach.

It seems to me that there are 3 main different approaches to accurately modeling booms:

1. Draw "dummy" 3D booms with symbols that are just symbols - not instruments. Then put the boom lighting instruments in a class that can be turned off in 3D views.

2. Create the booms in a correct 3D orientation, give every elevation of instrument a class and use DLVPs to move the 2D representation into a readable position.

3. The new command.

There is a place for each of the three, depending on the specifics of the booms in the drawing (truss, dance boom, box boom, etc).

I'll have to take the plunge w/ this command on an up coming drawing. I don't feel I really "grok" the whole thing yet.

michaelk

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

The plan for the future is to have the draw beam and rendering functionality work correctly in the DLVPs.

By default the command will create several layers. If you create using the selected objects you can minimize the number of layers that get created.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Vincent

I just tried it. It makes me more appreciative of the new CP&MV command.

First I would suggest using method 1 or 2 (see post #118567 above).

But if you really want to, here's an example of a really simple boom. (I hope Kevin will correct me if I have this wrong!)

Imagine a simple boom w/ 3 units: @ 24", 48", and 72".

On a new layer, insert an instrument with the lens facing the bottom of the screen. Insert another one in the same orientation 24" higher, and a 3rd an additional 24" higher. You will leave this layer turned off (invisible).

Set the 3d orientation of all three units to a 90? X rotation. In top view they will be pointing at you through the screen.

Create a DLVP on a new design layer (Call it something like 2D). This will be the layer that appears on the plot. This DLVP can be moved anywhere in the plot you find convenient.

Go back to the original layer. Create another DLVP on another new designer layer (this will be the model layer). Switch to a side view and rotate the DLVP 90?. You now have 3 units in the correct orientation and spacing - ready to be placed in the correct 3d location for the boom units.

To edit the units from the 2D plot, you will have to double click the DLVP to get the the invisible layer w/ the original symbols and then return to your plot layer.

My head hurts a little right now. But it seems that it might be possible to skip one step....

hth

michaelk

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haha,

thanks Michael, I did try the first method and got stuck when I tried to rotate the DLVP, but the dummy booms work just fine. It would be pretty awesome if they figured out a sure fire way to make this easier. In Wysiwyg it is a piece of cake, but I don't like doing complicated drafting with it.

Cheers,

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Hey Michael,

I hope this doesn't sound like a dumb question but I am kind of new but not new at all to Vectorworks. How exactly do you make the booms in their real 3D vertial position? I tried imported a lighting position but Vectorworks tells me since it is a hybrid object it can only be rotated in the Z axis. Do I need to maybe draw a line in the vertical position, convert it into a lighting position and imported it back into the drawing? I hope that made sense.

Cheers,

Vincent

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Vincent

I've never used the VW positions. I always make my own.

If you are trying to make a vertical truss in 2008 you set the hanging angle to 90 in the OIP.

If you are trying to make a traditional boom you can build it out of sweeps, extrudes, or extrude along path objects. Just don't make them lighting position objects. Use them for the dummy booms.

The lighting position object can be a just 2D. Put it in the same class as the boom lights, which you will make invisible in 3D views.

hth

michaelk

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  • 5 years later...

Hey Team,

I have attached a simple drawing containing 3 lights on a truss upright. I have read back through this string and my head hurts. I'm not a lighting guy, but I have to be a jack of all trades. I have the issue I'm sure you've all encountered where in top/plan with lighting legends on, they all stack on top of each other which isn't helpful at all.

Ideally I would like a front view of this truss with the labels attached so someone could build this from a plan. I have played with the create view and model plot but again, I'm so lost. Could anyone play with my drawing and recreate something that makes sense and re-post it here for me to reverse engineer? Thanks so much for all of your time.

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Forgive me if the following is obvious:

Don't forget, you only need the plot and model view methods if you need a model view. If you just need to draw lights on a vertical truss for a hanging plan, you can simply draw a 2D elevation. I have a few symbols of movers in various orientations for this purpose.

-Josh

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