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markmdesigns

VW vs. 3D Studio Max

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I was very happy with the results I was getting from Final Renderworks until I started seeing the amazingly photo-realistic images that 3D Studio Max can output. I noticed that the big lack in Renderworks was radiosity and so I started experimenting with VW radiosity (check out my first radiosity model Opticor Booth 1 ) and I have been happy to see more realistic results, but the results are at a much greater render time - which I would definitely expect. I would love to hear from people who have used both VW and 3DS Max for comparison.

I know that 3DS Max is also for animation and character work - which I do not need. The benefits of these capabilities for me seem to lie in the ability to create great organic shapes for objects like pillows and rugs (can anyone make a really great soft, wrikley pillow in VW?) I just want the level of realism that 3DS Max produces for models of sets for theatre, trade show design, and interiors. Is it worth learning a whole new application to get these type of results?

That's enough from me - share your thoughts!

Edited by markmdesigns

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Hi markmdesigns

Try using Custom Render rather than Final.

Also go read some thread on the forum under RenderWorks, should help you a lot as there are a couple of other rendering programs that work well with VW.

Cinema 4d, Artlantis, ESP Vision are what I know of, but it would depend on what your needs are.

I was thought of getting ESP for the lighting aspect, but VW seems to be trying to prove itself as I'm pushing the boundries for rendering.

Good luck with your choice

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My opinion vectorworks falls way behind 3ds max. I use both at the office I work at and you can really get photorealistic renderings from 3ds max and I have not seen anything from vectorworks that has made me question if it was a photo or not. With that being said I don't want people seeing something that looks like a photo, because then you have to try to recreate that photo.

Vectorworks gives you the ability to do a 2d drawing using geometry in symbols and have that be the foundation to a 3d rendering. While the rendering quality is not that of a 3d studio max you can make it a high enough quality to illustrate what you are trying to accomplish and feel comfortable sending to clients.

The animation portion there is no contest vectorworks cannot animate like 3d studio. Something vectorworks should really consider is the ability to do animation where items can be controlled in time in the animation currently you can only do a walkthrough or an orbit of a stationary item or scene. What would be great is to be able to have a door open in time or an item move.

I attached two renderings that were done in 3d studio and one from vectorworks. While I am not great at rendering in either program with limited knowledge in each I can create something presentable.

Matt

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Hi markmdesigns

I've mentioned this before but C4D is your best bet for the reasons below:

1. Superior rendering quality.

2. Ease of use (compared to 3DS).

3. Plug-in to VW so a link with a working model is kept.

4. Cheaper than 3ds because you can choose the modules you want.

5. More organic and robust modeling tools (which I think is what you want) and I think Artlantis doesn't have this.

6. Options for other rendering alternatives like Vray, Maxwell, Fryrender, etc.

However, as I also said before, there is a place for Renderworks because in my use, I can apply textures to the models which will be shown in elevations which I use for full colour council submissions. Also, I use this option for linking the model with C4D.

To summarize, I think if you're looking for a superior rendering AND modeling companion, C4D is the ONLY choice and besides, 3DS is AutoDesk and let's try to keep away from AutoDesk products :) . [Just a personal view ;)]

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Matt, have you looked at Julian Carr's Animation Works Add-on? It does what you want I think...

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I'am with Shaun...C4d is the best choice. In R11 with just a few settings you can get excellent results!

And don't support Autodesk products!! :mad:

Edited by Mr. Gog

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I recently started using C4D. It DESTROYS the rendering VW can do. The modeling is much nicer too. The problem is, it's not as accurate in terms of creating geometries and it doesn't handle feet/inches well.

In my perfect world, i would have a merge of C4D and VW. I was using Artlantis for a while for rendering, but it loses to C4D too.

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I've seen the stuff on Oz cad, but most of it just gives cartoonish look in my opnion. Don't get me wrong I love vectorworks and it is what I work in everyday. However you have to be realistic if you compare vectoworks to 3d studio in that they are two programs made for different purposes. Both do their purpose well, and if you are looking for near photo realistic renderings or doing real animation use 3d studio. Who cares if it is currently an autodesk product. It wasn't always an autodesk product either. I support vectorworks, but just because a competetor makes a good product that is in a similar category as vectorworks it doesn't mean I am going to snub it. I wish that vectorworks could handle 3d modeling like some of these other programs and sketch up because it is painful working in 3d sometimes in vectorworks.

C4D from what I hear is a good program. It is something I personally don't use. However I do work with a lot of people who speak pretty highly of it.

Edited by MattG

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Matt, my suggestion was regarding the animation features you were looking for eg opening doors, etc., not rendering qualities which OzCad's add-ons aren't designed to deal with. :-)

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Group A

Vectorworks, ArchiCAD, Revit, AllPlan, etc.

Group B

Cinema 4D, 3D Studio Max, Maya, XSI, Carrara, Shade, etc.

Programs in Group A can be compared with each other because they are CAD/BIM programs.

Programs in Group B can be compared with each other because they are freeform modeling/rendering/animation programs.

It would be extremely unfair to compare programs in Group A with programs in Group B and vice versa.

What one can do however, is use combinations of a program from Group A with a program from Group B hence my decision to use VW with C4D because these are the only two (to my knowledge), that has a live plug-in.

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Thanks to all for your helpful input. I like the group A group B distinction. I understood that distinction before, but I didn't know C4D (or any such program) was directly compatible with VW. Sounds like C4D is exactly what I'm looking for.

So what is VW for? (This could become a whole other topic) Is VW for creating drafting and basic modeling and rendering only while software like that in Group B is for advanced modeling rendering, but NOT for drafting? Plus those include the whole animation capability...but I notice another comment above mentions that CD4 (and presumably other similar applications) are not as good with precise geometry. o you need to use two separate applications to get beautifully rendered precise models?

OK, that's a lot more questions...discuss...

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I don't know. I have officially stopped using VW for rendering. Cinema 4D simply destroys it. ...but as i might have mentioned earlier, scale is weird in C4D. :|

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Is it the CINEMA 4D Architecture Edition that is the recommended version as Renderworks replacement?

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The basic C4D package alone has more strengths and features than Renderworks. It has a better material system. It has a better lighting system with hard, soft and area shadows(more reatistic) and it also has Bodypaint which huge movie houses use. So one doesn't have to buy the Architectural edition if it's too expensive, just the basic one will do. However, if one wants advanced features (like radiosity/global illumination) then one can buy the advanced render module or if the price isn't much different the one can buy the Architectural edition instead. Personally, I have just the basic + advanced render modules.

Renderworks has it's place. In my workflow it has very little use other than adding colour to my elevations and "texture linking to C4D" and if one wants, one can use it for quick visuals but I personally still use C4D for that. Also sometimes if a client doesn't want to pay too much for their renderings then I use Renderworks but because it takes so long, I would still use C4D (without doing too much of work inside C4D) in those situations. So actually Rendeworks is difficult.

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