Circular References

[C W]

This is a topic I've explored before with little in the way of feedback and results, and I'm curious why I don't hear more VW users talking about it. To be able to have files referencing each other to me seems a necessity... before I began working on it, the other draftsman would periodically copy and paste plans into one another to stay updated. Case in point, before even discussing the breaking up of a building so that multiple people could work on the same project, we need every project to have the landscape plan file and the floor plan file to reference one another... from what I've discovered after almost two years, this isn't possible! Am I mistaken? Because, even when I could (though many times I crash during the process) set the files up via DLVP or WR, at some point the files become corrupted, but as soon as I break the references, the files are fine... which obviously leads me to believe the issue is the referencing.

Currently, I'm trying to take one of the VW users advice of setting up a "dummy file" to act as a hub for both the landscape and floor plans... which in theory sounds perfect! Accordingly, I have file A (Floor Plans), file B (Landscape Plans), and File C (Hub). From here I've tried to reference File A and B into file C and file C into A and B. Also, I've tried to just do half of this scenario: Either file A into C, C into B, and B into A or the other way around... u follow? In about 30 attempts (Including two PC stations (via hard drive and via the server) and 1 Mac station (Via hard drive) I can't do this... every single time one of the three files will be inoperable.

So if I'm missing something, please let me know! Thanks.

[islandmon]

Files cannot be dynamically linked between Multiple Owners or Users. There must be an Ordinate and Subordinate relationship established via the WGR protocols. Users can reference the static data in files A ...Z. But changes to files A...Z can only happen from within the A...Z files or via Save As , overwrite > A...Z.

All WGR files are in fact "dummies" from the stand point of the active file which must link to the information for viewing or break the link by importing the data.

Nevertheless, the relationships between files can be reversed by simply terminating WGR in the Active File and re-establishing it from within the Referenced file.

[Christiaan]

Vectorworks 2008 supports circular referencing but it has a monstrous bug that causes significant slow downs, and you have to go through an elaborate process to clean the files of the data causing the problem.

v2009 apparently resolves this problem and I've been told there's no intention to fix v2008.

[panta rhei]

One of the subjects I've tried to avoid... Wasted way too many hours in trying to get referencing to work in a meaningful way.

Christiaan, I'll take your word on this and shall set up a test case & report back.

[C W]

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[Jeffrey W Ouellette]

The best way to avoid problems of circular referencing is to use layers to segregate what is being referenced in and what is native and potentially referenced out. The WGR/DLVP works basically on the Layer container level.

I would create a separate "referencing" layer for each WGR/DLVP that I want to use for reference while editing the content of the current document.

Mod-Floor-1

Mod-Reference-1

"Mod-Floor-1" contains all the information I want to add/edit to a particular file. "Mode-Reference-1" contains only the WGR/DLVPs that are necessary when editing that info. When I create a new WGR/DLVP in another file, I only have to reference "Mod-Floor-1" and not get the other reference.

As for the use of common symbols, I prefer using Push/Pull of symbol definitions from a "template" via the Resource Browser versus implementing a "common" referenced file.

[Christiaan]

Sounds like good advice Jeffrey. Of course it's also evidence of how inherently complex WGR is. (bring on ArchiCAD TeamWork!)

[panta rhei]

(Yet to test- or even to assess - Jeffrey's concept.)

Complexity can also mean flexibility and freedom.