B.Balemi Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Howdy all. I have been told i dont quite understand the BIM. Thats okay ,so what is going to be the advantage for Joe sixpack. (I which it was ) Just to coin a phrase used in the american politicial scene lately. I am a small operation,and dont want to model cites yet,maybe a town would be great. Look forward to your technical mono syllabic answers.TIA Regards Brendan Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Not much Brendan. I don't think BIM will do much for you until your clients and regulators start asking for it. You might find 3D modelling useful, and you might find many BIM tools useful for your own purposes, such as automatically producing window schedules, etc. But in terms of a building information model that you pass onto others... Quote Link to comment
B.Balemi Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Hi Chritiaan How accurate will it be? I find now with plans that I model I get accurate info by my 2d drafting? Am I going the way of the dinosaur? Brendan Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Not sure what you mean by accurate Brendan. In terms of the way of the dinosaur, certainly not in my opinion. 2D is still where the bread and butter is for most of us. Quote Link to comment
Ray Libby Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Building_Information_Modeling Quote Link to comment
Dieter @ DWorks Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 It all depends on what you want to get out of your drawing. Let's say you have a drawing of some houses. If you draw with spaces, you can get the area of these and you can make a nice table for use in calculations. Some would say this isn't BIM, but it is. Building Information Modelling. The way I look at it is that you can get info out of your drawing (2D or 3D). these info can be used later for other things. Normally this info has to be added on other papers by a person. So how small the info may be, its still BIM. When I am asked by poeple to help them with setting up libraries and templates, the first thing I ask is what they want to get out of their drawings. I use this info as the starting point. You can add more and more use of BIM while you grow in it. Begin with small things like spaces and add to that while you go. And by the way: a drawing that uses symbols als uses bim because you can get the number of symbols in the drawing by a spreadsheet. Quote Link to comment
brudgers Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) BIM is information modeling, not building modeling per se. The idea behind BIM is that you can map useful information onto discreet drawing/modeling elements. So the first step is determining what information would be useful, then determining what discreet elements (if any) it can be mapped to, and then finally determine if its worth the effort. Edited October 6, 2008 by brudgers Quote Link to comment
B.Balemi Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Cheers guys. I see it will require its own dicipline. Thanks Ray for the link. "BIM is able to achieve such improvements by modeling representations of the actual parts and pieces being used to build a building. This is a substantial shift from the traditional computer aided drafting method of drawing with vector file based lines that combine to represent objects. The interoperability requirements of construction documents include the drawings, procurement details, environmental conditions, submittal processes and other specifications for building quality. It is anticipated by proponents that BIM can be utilized to bridge the information loss associated with handing a project from design team, to construction team and to building owner/operator, by allowing each group to add to and reference back to all information they acquire during their period of contribution the BIM model. For example, a building owner may find evidence of a leak in his building. Rather than exploring the physical building, he may turn to his BIM and see that a water valve is located in the suspect location. He could also have in the model the specific valve size, manufacturer, part number, and any other information ever researched in the past, pending adequate computing power." This is a definition in wikipedia. But the thing I wonder is you have to been controlling all aspects of the building process for it to work like this. Plumbers I know stick the valve where they think. Also say you could use it for bracing calculations ,but what about different country regulations. I often find I am forced already to not use some of the mechanisms in Vworks because they dont work in my country. But if I can retrieve more info more easily I am all for that. Brendan Quote Link to comment
B.Balemi Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 How would you train people new to Vworks in the complexities of the BIM? As programmes get more features it gets harder to introduce people to programme logic. Many people including me are under utilizing a number all ready. Brendan Quote Link to comment
Jeffrey W Ouellette Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Check out the BIM in Practice pages of the website: http://www.nemetschek.net/bim/index.php Quote Link to comment
gScott Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 BIM will give you another bed of pain to writhe on. apart from having to sort crap out on site, because the builder enjoys ignoring drawings; you can now do it all in the office first, because whoever is working on the model can't agree/get it right/CAD won't let them, and then do it again on site. it will also help you get sued a second time, and be late to site, because the model has to be very substantially complete before you start getting the useful results out of it. it will slow you down as you try to fix all the little bugger-ups on screen, rather than lashing a quick setting-out drawing down to site. and then the client changes their mind and you find, and try to fix, all the little knock-ons on-screen rather than spending time on site with people who can probably sort it out quicker than you anyway... at 4 a.m. it's faster to start doing A4 hand sketches + lash them down the fax line bring on the holidays, i need a break... Quote Link to comment
Ozzie Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) Building Information Modelling ? the name says a lot The ease and simplicity of operating software applications is critical to benefit from the depths potentially it can be plumbed ? one of the challenges for software manufacturers I know of a large organisation using not Vectorworks but another supposed ?BIM capable? software application who have abandoned that idea as it was too hard to implement ? the complexity of formulas and the like; meaning learning curves for existing and new staff was just too great. Mistakes were made and in areas things hit the fan The next challenge is data exchange between various cad packages It therefore immediately means there are serious limitations to its practical application in fact and collaboration outside of the software it came from ? all very difficult for Mr Jo Blow NNA has a challenge to simplify the manner in which data is collected assumedly through Worksheets and probably too in their own interests as well as their users provide meaningful as simple as possible to learn very available resources helping users to be more effective It mystifies me already this has not happened in a very open and transparent manner and I would not suggest anyone hold their breath I remember in another life exploring ?programming? possibilities with AutoCAD. It did my head in. I met a man who was a genius at it ? did his head in too for a long time Vectorworks is so powerful ? too learn in a simple tutorial manner to use Worksheets properly or for that manner Vectorscript ? where are the resources to allow one to in a structured manner to take on the challenge provided by NNA for free to build a users ability to gain more from Vectorworks Assumedly too if BIM is so important it would build the user base too Edited October 16, 2008 by Ozzie Quote Link to comment
nycL45 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 (edited) BIM is happening. There is an article in the current Green Construction Purchasing magazine here: http://www.construction-purchasing.com/site/archives/build_your_business/Clee_D08J09_BIM.php A huge proponent of BIM is the U.S. GSA click here (link may not be visible): http://www.gsa.gov/Portal/gsa/ep/channelView.do?pageTypeId=8195&channelPage=%252Fep%252Fchannel%252FgsaOverview.jsp&channelId=-18161 Here are some of the early signatories to the National BIM Standard and the FAQ link and the Standard download button: http://www.buildingsmartalliance.org/nbims/adopters.php How about a job opening? Check under Programs in this Craig's List posting in NYC: Reply to: job-946429819@craigslist.org [?] Date: 2008-12-05, 3:41PM EST Architect and Interior Design openings Exp: 4-10+ years Must have a portfolio of large scale healthcare and higher education projects Responsibilities: Project management Team management Client presentations Planning, concept and design development Programs: AutoCAD, Revit & BIM BArch required, MArch and registration preferred LEED a plus! Please email your resume and portfolio samples for consideration Compensation: $60-80,000 DOE Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster. Please, no phone calls about this job! Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests. PostingID: 946429819 http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/egr/946429819.html BIM is the way of the future so, make friends with the inevitable. Leonard Edited December 15, 2008 by nycL45 Quote Link to comment
panta rhei Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 BIM may well be happening, but it's obviously not paying. At least not to employees... Well, one who pays peanuts, gets squirrels. Quote Link to comment
nycL45 Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Elephants love peanuts, too. BIM is big and yes, it has been slow to develop momentum but it is building. Below is another link to an article related to BIM which includes the next phase, the BIM 3D model, which was employed with recent projects. I attended an 2007 AIA CEU event with Jan Reinhardt/Turner Construction (in this article) as presenter and this was the subject. It was fascinating how the BIM model is/was employed on the Atlantic Yards Gehry project in Brooklyn. They were able to significantly reduce the number of shop drawings submitted by various trades (electrical, HVAC, etc.) Drywall was erected *before* these trades and perfectly cut round and rectangular holes were provided and the trades knew in advance from the reference model with all the systems precisely detailed, with the exact route of their system and where their hole was located in the dry wall. They could see it and check the size from the model. They did "before" (a blank GWB wall with the holes) and "after" (with actual piping, ducts, etc.) photos that were very impressive. It should be noted that the BIM model (2007) was a problem with some trades such as concrete. Our profession is experiencing a revolution that is on low heat. http://newyork.construction.com/features/archive/2008/06_feature1.asp Leonard Quote Link to comment
Bret Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I've mentioned this before here on the boards, but I think Leonard's example above shows where BIM is most useful--Frank Gehry-type projects. BIM definitely has the potential for savings if you're doing projects which are: 1) quite large; 2) highly repetitious; and/or 3) highly irregular in form. However, my view is that if you're working on humbler projects (e.g. single-family residences, small tracts, smaller commercial projects, etc.), then the extra work it takes to implement BIM is neither time-efficient nor cost-effective for the client. I don't know if it ever will be, but I guess that remains to be seen. As for our mid-sized structural firm, we'll be holding off on BIM until we start bidding on the type of projects which need it. Quote Link to comment
billtheia Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 It seems to me that going "fully BIM" is only necessary when clients want or require it. It's only useful if builders are able to use the information embedded in the model and only if architects are willing to vouch for the accuracy of that information. It's only valuable if it saves someone time and money. Some of the "BIM tools" in VW can do quite a bit for you even if you aren't going truly BIM. Creation of door & window schedules can be automated. Room and other areas can be calculated. Sheet legends can be created. There are many examples of VW's tools improving speed of document creation. These save the architect time and money. VW's 3D tools (part of BIM? you decide.) can also be quite helpful. VW makes it pretty easy to create a 3D model of a project during the design process. This model helps the designer AND the client see the project in ways that traditional 2D drafting simply don't allow. This, arguably, saves the client time and money because they can make better decisions early in the design process thus limiting changes later in the documentation and construction processes. The model can also be used to create construction drawings thus again saving the architect time. I use many of VWs BIM & 3D tools on small projects and I find them to be quite useful. What can BIM do for you? What do you want it to do? Quote Link to comment
nycL45 Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Yes, BIM/BIM 3D Model may not be a financial success now and may never apply to certain building types in its pure form. But these are early days. A variety of major money projects are implementing some form of the program and these are projects overseen by heavy weight project managers that squeeze money out of everyone. Then you have GSA, the number one BIM force for some years now, is requiring the use of BIM in some form. They all believe in the BIM/BIM 3D Model potential to greatly reduce construction time and costs and energy consumption, etc. A side note to an earlier post, Turner Construction is one of the largest construction companies in the U.S. and it is owned by Hochtief AG of Germany, that country's largest construction company. I believe Jan Reinhardt in 2007 said it is Hochtief that introduced the BIM 3D model in Germany and is pushing it in the U.S. A couple of details of how this system works that was mentioned by Reinhardt in 2007. Some shop drawings are entirely omitted, as noted earlier, because the systems are finely detailed on the project 3D model by each trade and each trade adds his system to the project model. When there is a conflict between systems (the software includes "clash detection" features), the architect, subs meet on site to review and resolve clashes in the model. Reinhardt said this actually expedited the process. This is the coordination meeting/e-version of composite building system shop drawings. Fabrication is also affected by the BIM 3D model. Reinhardt's example: the electrical sub assembles long sections of conduits with bends and fittings in his shop, puts them on a flat bed trailer and installs these assembled sections on site. It allows subs to reduce field staffing and assembly and time. In 2007, Reinhardt said no real savings were realized on the Atlantic Yards project because it was the first BIM 3D Model project and all contributing parties were experiencing issues. I believe Reinhardt said Hochtief AG has been developing and implementing the model in Germany and elsewhere for some years now. Over the next five years, I believe the BIM 3D Model process will be greatly refined and many others will be implementing it, too. Within ten years, medium sized projects will be using a very similar model. And, small commercial projects and residential projects will follow, maybe with a modified version. I am again linking this article because it is a 2008 update on this subject: http://newyork.construction.com/features/archive/2008/06_feature1.asp Leonard Quote Link to comment
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