Laptop spec needed???

[KatherineHenham]

I'm an 3year architect student and just progressing form hand drawing to vectorworks.

I'm looking into buying a laptop and wondered if anyone could tell me what is a reasonable spec for running vectorworks... and if anyone could recommend a particular laptop.

Thanks

Katherine

[brudgers]

In my opinion, the most important element for a Vectorworks Laptop is the graphics subsystem.

Discreet video memory of at least 256megs is probably reasonable.

I recommend Dell Precision Mobile Worksations on the PC side because Dell keeps their video drivers up to date...and most laptop video drivers must come directly from the computer manufacturer.

[Christiaan]

Hi Katherine, first thing I'd say is make sure you absolutely positively need portability.

Reason being is that there's a big difference between working in VectorWorks on the kind of screen a laptop can offer and the kind a desktop can offer. And if you try to compensate by going for a laptop with a large screen (such as 17" MacBook Pro) you really start to compromise on portability (it can get quite cumbersome lugging the big ones around).

I can't see why anyone would bother with Windows-only PCs unless you're in the market for a very low-end machine (which Apple don't produce). If you're looking for value for money I'd probably go with the MacBook, which runs VectorWorks quite well from my experience. I doubt you'll find any comparably spec'd Windows-only laptop for the price, and you have the choice of running Windows or Mac OS on it.

If you have the budget I'd probably go for the 15" MacBook Pro.

I'd max out the memory (RAM) in both cases.

[monkey]

mac over PC any day of the week!!! thats if you have enough pennies.

we run VW on both platforms in our office and i am continually having to solve problems with the PC's. Im not bashing PC's totally ,i run VW on my home machine which is a PC, but i use a mac at work and it is far more fluent with VW, and just plain easier.

Edited August 21, 2008 by monkey

[Ray Libby]

Christiaan, Please take your Windows bashing somewhere else, it doesn't belong here.

You really need to start with a budget and what you will be doing with it, then work from there, even lower priced laptops are capable of running VW.

I have always bought Toshiba laptops, and been very happy with them, no problems. They are usually rated very good.

[Christiaan]

Christiaan, Please take your Windows bashing somewhere else

I reserve the right to bash Windows but if you'd like to quote me where I do in this thread I'd be happy to remove it Ray.

[Ray Libby]

I can't see why anyone would bother with Windows-only PCs unless you're in the market for a very low-end machine

[brudgers]

I've had Toshiba, Dell, and HP laptops.

The video driver support is the reason I recommend the professional grade Dell systems. Vectorworks is particularly sensitive to having current video drivers.

In my opinion, the Macbook Pros are grossly overpriced for machines with consumer level graphics, limited ram, and 5400 rpm disks...at $2700 the 17" model comes pre-loaded with the "I am Rich" application.

In my opinion, Apple's standard one year warranty on hardware is also subpar, given the price premium.

[Christiaan]

I can't see why anyone would bother with Windows-only PCs unless you're in the market for a very low-end machine

Er, that's not bashing Windows, that's bashing machines that only run Windows.

[Christiaan]

One thing to bear in mind is refresh cycles and the MacBook Pro is nearing the end of a cycle so maybe not a good time to buy in any case:

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#MacBook_Pro

MacBook Pros are not limited to 5400 RPM drives by the way. Also, one point on the Quadro graphics card, at 50W you can expect a lot more heat than the Geforce, which runs at 20W.

In any case I went to compare:

A M4400 Dell Precision Mobile Worksation with a 15" MacBook Pro and as usual Dell's website base spec is quite low so you have to add a whole lot of bits and pieces to actually compare one to the MacBook Pro

Bits added to bring the M4400 up to spec:

Core 2 Duo 2.4 GHz processor

1440x900 Display

2 GB RAM

160GB Hard Drive 7200RPM (Had to spec the MacBook Pro with a 200 GB 7200 RPM)

8X DVD+/-RW drive

WiFi 802.11n

Integrated webcam with microphone

DisplayPort to DVI (Single Link) Adapter

Of course you'll also be needing the cost and hassle of anti-virus software

This brought the price up to $1,977. A somewhat comparable 15" MacBook Pro comes out at $2,099.00 with 1 year warranty, although you get a backlit keyboard, 40 GB more hard drive, metal instead of plastic casing, the iLife range of software and the ability to run both Windows and Mac OS.

Same thing happens when you spec the M6300 out to compare with the MacBook Pro 17", it goes up to $2700.

So any differences in price are insignificant. It comes down to whether you want to limit yourself to Windows or not.

[brudgers]

As is typical for Mac advocates, the downside of having no real choice is ignored.

Don't need Wireless N or already own a webcam and microphone? You still have to pay for Steve's backdated options.

Need more graphics power in your laptop? you can't get it at the Apple Store.

Want 8 gigs of ram? Gotta buy a Dell.

The first part of the game is always to spec a PC like a Mac, because the opposite is impossible.

The other part of the game is to ignore Mac options necessary to meet PC specs.

Add $349 to the Mac price for Apple Care...Dell Precision products come with three year NBD on site service. Of course Apple cares so much that you get to mail your Macbook or schelp it to a store...time is money as they say.

Add $150 to the Mac for OEM Windows.

There's another $500 bucks the PC guy will leave in your pocket...though the Mac Owner might get a chance to hang out with hep hoodie dudes at the Mac Store Service Department...or chat with disgruntled Postal workers.

And should you want a copy of Office for your business, Apple will charge you full retail...$399 v. $149 for an OEM version at Dell.

$200 for a black case...I guess that's the LE version of "I am Rich."

---

BTW Precision's come in a magnesium alloy case.

Edited August 21, 2008 by brudgers

[Miguel Barrera]

Katherine

According to the minimum requirements below, just about any new computer will be able to run VW. So the question is more like how much can you spend on a student budget? I would say buy the fastest machine you can afford specially if you are going to be doing renderings of your work. I have a $700 HP laptop with 2GB Ram, AMD TL-50 1.6 GHz, NVidia GeForce 6150 and it runs VW fast enough for my needs. I would agree with Christiaan though, the Mac would be a better investment if you can afford one because it can run both Windows and Mac and its quality is better than a Wintel machine. I have lost count how many times I had to reinstall Windows on my daughter's computer while the Mac G3 my other daughter inherited has been running without problems for years.

System Requirements

Macintosh:

Operating System: Mac OS X 10.4.10 or later

Other Software: QuickTime 6 or higher

Processor: PowerPC G4 or newer

(Universal binary runs native on Intel Macs)

Other Hardware: DVD-ROM drive

Screen Resolution: 1024 x 768 (XGA)

Display color depth: 16 bit

Windows:

Operating System: Windows XP SP 2, Windows Vista

Other Software: QuickTime 6.5.2 to 7.2

(higher versions not recommended)

Processor: Pentium IV or newer

Other Hardware: DVD-ROM drive

Screen Resolution: 1024 x 768 (XGA)

Display color depth: 16 bit

VectorWorks Architect:

RAM: 1GB

Hard drive space: 4GB free

VectorWorks Architect plus RenderWorks:

RAM: 2GB

Hard drive space: 4GB free

[billtheia]

Katherine, In the event that you go with a mac, I am running VW2008 SP3 on a first-generation MacBook 1.83 GHz w/ 2G RAM. VW runs fine when doing most things but it slows when doing renderings. The amount of rendering that I do has increased so I'm probably going to upgrade soon. I will almost certainly buy a 24" iMac 3.06GHz and keep the MacBook as my portable. If I was only going to have one machine and needed it to be portable, I'd buy the fastest MacBook Pro that I could afford (as well as and an external monitor.)

VW is pretty processor and RAM intensive when you start doing renderings so you want to buy the fastest processor and get at least 2G of RAM - 4G if you can afford it.

Expensive video cards don't do much for VW unless you do lots of OpenGL rendering - Which you might, as you model things and want to look at them from different angles.

Hard disk speed only makes a difference when you're opening files, and even then, only when their big - like for large, very detailed, buildings - probably not going to be a problem in architecture school.

Mac or PC, my advice is buy the fastest processor with the most ram first. Then worry about video cards. Then worry about fast hard disks.

Good luck.

[M.CH]

Here are your choices, there is due to be a new range of MacBook Pros in September, so you can buy the latest fastest laptop that works out of the box, or you can get a good discount, (from Apple) for the previous generation machine on the Apple website.

In addition along with your student discount you can also get a free iPod touch, if you qualify should be happening in the UK very soon as already available in US.

What has not been discussed is the weight comparison of similar laptops.

Lightweight PC laptops carry a price premium over macs, usually with a lower spec.

If you can afford the difference between a MacBook and a MacBook Pro then go for the 15"MBP, the benefit being a larger screen. Otherwise the mid range MacBook offers the best value

[Dieter @ DWorks]

I have lost count how many times I had to reinstall Windows on my daughter's computer while the Mac G3 my other daughter inherited has been running without problems for years.

Well, it all depends what you do with your computer!

With a pc, you can do a lot of stuff, so you can do a lot of stuff very wrong and screw up your pc. So you'll have to reinstall it. When you know how to use it and what you should and should not do, there will be no problems with a pc.

With a mac, it's a product that can't be changed and it's meant for doing some stuff and that's all. It's great in the case that it will work for doing the thing's that it's meant to be. But you can't do other stuff with it or expand it, or do what you want with it,....

So for the pc vs mac thing: Both are great, it just depend if you want a system that you'll never change or a system that you'll put together the way you want and do what you want.

For normal users (with normal I mean users that buy a computer and never do anything with the hardware, only use it) I think it's the same. It will only depend on how much money they have because macs can be overpriced for what they are.

[M.CH]

What can you do with a pc you cant do with a mac??

Why cant you change a mac?

[gmm18]

I bought the 17" MacBook Pro. Recommend it highly.

It is plenty portable, super fast, and the extra screen size as

compared to the 15" makes a world of difference when using

app's with lots of toolbars (VW, and Adobe products).

Yes, it is a lot of money, but so are most quality machines,

plus you are a student, you should feel comfortable investing

in a great machine that you will be happy with for years to come.

No viruses, no problems, no regrets.

Also from Apple you get a student discount on the machine, plus a free iPod, and free printer.

And, be sure to thank NNA for your free Educational VW 2008,

fully functional. It just adds a watermark which is super easy to remove

if you ever want to for anything more than just a draft print:

Just set-up your sheets with an extra inch page-size on top and bottom,

export to PDF, then crop the PDF top and bottom by 1" using Acrobat.