Simple Problem need help!!!

[CS1]

I want to create a free draining timber deck.

I need it for the presentation and working drawing stages of my drawing.

My first method was to create the decks using the floor tool.

On the ground floor plans I can show the first floor deck outline above as dashed and also give the decking a hatch.

However in the model only the topside has the decking texture the underside and edges do not.

Ok the next method I tried is to use extrusions.

In the model the texture is applied to the top, bottom and edges. Great.

Now when I go the plan views I cant give th decking a hatch and I cant show the outline as dashed for my ground floor plans.

What can I do?????????

I know I can create to objects one 3D one 2D and class them seperately and give each different attributes and for each view do different class overrides or turn each class on/off for how I want it to appear, and every time I want to make a change to the shape I have to edit both the 2D and 3D components.

But this is just a simple deck!!!

Surely in 2008 there has got to be a better way???

I mean In VW we can create a 3D spiraled object which starts at 1mm diameter and scales out to 100mm diameter and then work out the volume etc.

We can create models and show the suns progression through the year with moving shadows etc.

Are you telling me this program can do all this and far far more but it cant give a dashed line to an extrusion or put a texture on the bottom of a floor object???

Surely not!

Edited August 7, 2008 by CS1

[Pat Stanford]

Check out the Slab Object by Patrick Higgins available from VectorDepot.

http://www.vectordepot.com/Plugins1.shtml

Pat (the other one)

[islandmon]

Oh come on ... there are numerous ways to create the deck. It depends on whether or not you desire a materials list. Really ...

Sure it would be great to have a dedicated DeckTool ... but who needs it.

The simplest is the hybridSymbol 3dPoly with hatch/texture. The next is the individual arrayed Hybrid Timber symbols with joist & clips & footers, etc. You could also just create the profile & then extrude it and then trim the thing and pitch it, as required.

Decking is one of the easiest thing to create.

Of course, there are the Flooring and SlabObjects as well.

[CS1]

Yeah I know there are numerous ways to create what Im after ( I wasnt asing for a dedicated deck tool).

The problem is you either have to have hybrid objects or create using the joist tools etc. Why do we need to do this when there is a floor tool?

Or why cant we just use extrusions?

Extrusions are great you can create whatever shape you want and edit it but you only have full control over how it looks in 3D not 2D. A large number of users use VW for building plans, with floor plans we try to illustrate in 2D whats happening in 3D. I think it makes sense that if we are creating objects whose final presentation is going to be 2D on a printed plan we should have better control over there 2D attributes.

[CS1]

Haha thanks Pat(s)

The slab tool is just what I need.

So after looking at this it is possible to give 3D objects like this editable 2D attributes. Have you got any insight as to why extrusions dont have this ability?

[Tom G.]

More discussion on the Slab Object tool can be found here:

http://converttolines.blogspot.com

3D objects that don't show well in Top Plan view should simply be moved to a layer of their own. This layer might also include banding, columns, stairs, etc.

I'd let a simple poly represent the 3D object in Top Plan and not spend any time trying to solve the problem via use of classes.

[CS1]

Ah the slab object cant recognize "clip surface" So stair wells and lift shafts cut be shown properly.

[Pat Stanford]

I think you need both kinds of objects. The Slab object is 6 times as large (all the data is required for each side) as a simple extrude. If you truly want a single object, I would not use a slab with the settings all the same.

The real question is why does it take a 3rd party to create the slab?

Pat

[CS1]

Yeah thats a great point.

It seems that with all the complex things that are possible with VW it cant complete the simple task of creating a single object (not hybrid object) that can look as desired in 2D and 3D, the user needs to either sacrifice one for the other or double up on objects.

For what I use VW for I could almost imagine not using beam tools roof tools floor tools etc if the extrude tool could just do the above.

[mike m oz]

CS1 if there was another way to do it don't you think it would have already been done. The need for a different representation in Top/Plan View is exactly why there are hybrid objects. The various Plug-in Objects are one type. Hybrid symbols are another. Learn how to use them and you will find they actually do what you want very well.

Extrudes are for modelling things that the PIOs don't do. If you need to have different finishes on different edges convert them to 3D polys. Then you can have different finishes on each surface. Or use the Extract Surface tool to create a new surface which you can apply a separate finish to (after moving it slightly away from the existing surface).

[CS1]

I believe it can be done...

The floor tool does 1/3 of the requirements the extrusion tool does 1/3 of the requirements and it looks like the slab tool does the other 1/3.

Why would anyone want to create 2 instances of the same object (hybrid, Extrusion for the 3D , 2D polygon for the 2D . Just to do soemthing that a dashed extrusion could do or a floor object that could have different on all sides.

Im not doubting that there are numerous ways to create an object with 6 different textured sides (or more).

But its like drawing 4 lines, joining them, grouping them to create a 2D square, why not use the rectangle tool.

[CS1]

The need for a different representation in Top/Plan View is exactly why their are hybrid objects

I see hybrid symbols as "work arounds" for tasks that the tools aerent able to complete fully.

I have seen a fair amount of plans and details for buildings, machinery etc, and I think its safe to say people that draw plans (us) dont just use solid lines, the drawings would be a mess, why then are the basic tools not set up to cater for this?

If you need to have different finishes on different edges convert them to 3D polys

We dont we do this for walls or roofs or joinery. I would have thought floors would be the next tool to fix for software that is used to draw plans for buildings.

Edited August 8, 2008 by CS1

[Ray Libby]

Hybrid symbols are a very powerful tool. You may have a wish list, but don't blame one of the great features of this software.

[Pat Stanford]

The need for a different representation in Top/Plan View is exactly why their are hybrid objects

I see hybrid symbols as "work arounds" for tasks that the tools aerent able to complete fully.

Hybrids aren't a work around, they are THE way for an end user to create a hybrid object that will look different in PLAN than in the other views. You mentioned earlier in the thread that you wanted an object that can be hatched in Plan and textured in 3D. Without hybrid objects, this would not be possible without painful grouping and classing.

As for why there is not an included object that easily offers the multi-texturing/coloring capability, I think it has to do with complexity.

As you mentioned earlier, the slab does not easily handle cutouts for stairwells and the like. How would a texturable object that has 1 cutout in the middle handle it? Would all of the "edges" both the outside and the internal cutout use the same texture/color? Or would each edge be individually set? How about an object with a circular cutout? Should it be with each facet individually set or all as one setting? How about an object with 5 cutouts? 10? 100? How would you set up an interface with an object like that that would make sense? How much would you scream when the limitation of the object ends up being 1 less than you need.

Sometimes things that seem simple actually end up being way more complex than you think at first glance.

Pat

[atari2600]

Sometimes things that seem simple actually end up being way more complex than you think at first glance.

Pat

Ironic that "Simple Problem need help!!!" is the topic header of this thread.

[M.CH]

This is a situation where hybrid symbols are perfect, allowing easy resolution in both 2d & 3d

[CS1]

How would a texturable object that has 1 cutout in the middle handle it? Would all of the "edges" both the outside and the internal cutout use the same texture/color? Or would each edge be individually set? How about an object with a circular cutout? Should it be with each facet individually set or all as one setting? How about an object with 5 cutouts? 10? 100? How would you set up an interface with an object like that that would make sense?

I can appreciate what your saying, but at the moment we can create walls, roofs, windows, doors, etc without using hybrid symbols. These all work in model and plan, at the moment there is not one tool that can create a floor that can do the same without using "hybrid symbols". I understand that the direction of this program is to ideally "draw it once", "hybrid" sounds great but all it is, is copy, "paste in place", extrude, select both and group, any change to the object requires doing the same process over again.

We can set textures for walls to left right side, if the floor could just have top bottom and sides wouldnt this resolve 99% of the problem with the floor tool, couldnt the floor tool then be used with out hybrid. There maybe 1/100 jobs where the floor tool would need even more textures but then you could use hybrid symbols for that.

Edited August 10, 2008 by CS1

[mike m oz]

I can appreciate what your saying, but at the moment we can create walls, roofs, windows, doors, etc without using hybrid symbols.

All of these objects are hybrid objects. So are floors. In real a real building openings in floors and edges would be faced with another object anyway so why not model them.

There is a Slab tool that does work the way you want it to available from Vector Plug-ins. It is part of the VP Tools collection. Good value at US$36: http://www.vectorplugins.com/vptools/

There maybe 1/100 jobs where the floor tool would need even more textures but then you could use hybrid symbols for that.

Better to model the reality. Extract Edges and Shell Solid in the 3D Modelling toolset are very useful capabilities.

[CS1]

Thanks for that Mike, the slab tools is useful but you cant "clip surface" for stairs and lifts.

Imagine with walls if we had to select all walls, convert copy to polygons, and then group with all the walls (hybrid) just so we could show them as a solid fill in plan view and brick in 3D.

It feels like this is what is expected with floors.

Having the same texture for all sides may not work for all buildings but I think it would be a hell of a lot better than the way it is now.

[CS1]

Ironic that "Simple Problem need help!!!" is the topic header of this thread.

In hindsight I regret my choice of titles

[mike m oz]

Thanks for that Mike, the slab tools is useful but you cant "clip surface" for stairs and lifts.

You can with the VP Slab tool. When you double click on it you can choose to go into the 'Path' part. This can then be 2D edited as you like. On exit the slab will regenerate.