3D Rotate Tool . . . . Doesn't!!

[AndiACD]

i desperately need to be able to rotate a 3D Symbol/Object/Solid in ANY view, But, VW insists on complaining that you can't do that with a Hybrid.

The models i'm attempting to rotate are not Hybrids(no sign of 2D objects to be found anywhere in the drawing, at ANY level).

This obligation to follow NNA's ideal may be helpful to those that need a 2D representation of the drawing that mirrors the whole image, but being restricted to only one view in which this operation can be carried out(Plan) is a blinkered attitude to say the least.

There should be an "Off Switch" for this parameter so that, regardless of what VW thinks it might be dealing with, it WILL rotate the item from any view.

An Option MUST be available to rotate everything from anywhere if required. If VW could join us in the 21st Century(but should be forging into the 22ndC) a Hybrid could be rotated from any view and the "Look at Working Plain" function used to view all(both 2D + 3D) from the top/plan view if necessary.

Those that don't need the the "Off Switch" could simply leave the Preference "On".

If on the other hand there is already an option of this kind that i was unable to find while testing 2008 or indeed any previous incarnations of VW, i would be grateful for any pointer in the direction that will lead me to it.

[maarten.]

Could it be that you have the option "stack layers" on? if so, turn it of and try again, it should work then...

[AndiACD]

Thanx Marteen, but i haven't been able to find anything referring to "Stack Layers".

Where should i hunt for it? Pallets, Prefs, Menus?

[Pat Stanford]

Since you can't rotate a hybrid object, you need to convert ti to a non-hybrid object.

In any 3D view, select the symbol and do a Convert to Group. You will loose all of the 2D/Hybrid portion and keep just the 3D part.

If you actually need it to be a symbol, you can then Create Symbol from the group.

Pat

[AndiACD]

Hey Pat,

Does model remain fully Editable once grouped, or does it have to be ungrouped every time to work on it.

i met up with Dan Monaghan and Biplap for "Demo/Questions meet" a few years ago in London and they suggested i stopped using the Grouped option for a similar reason, but that was back in the birth of VW 12 days.

Thanx i'll give it a try.

[maarten.]

The models i'm attempting to rotate are not Hybrids(no sign of 2D objects to be found anywhere in the drawing, at ANY level).

If i get it right, the symbols only have 3D objects in the 3D part of the symbol and no objects in the 2D part. If so, you should be able to rotate them in every view (even in perspective). So you don't need to use Pat's workaround in this case (but it's a very good workaround if you would have hybrid symbols).

So, the only logic explaination i can think of is that you have "stack layers" on. It's this option:

(i excuse upfront if misunderstood your question, in that case, don't mind me )

[Pat Stanford]

If you mean can you perform solids operations on it while it is a group, the answer is no. But you can't do that when it is a symbol either. You can Edit Group to enter the group and make changes without having to Ungroup it and deal with multiple pieces.

Depending on what you are starting with, it might be easy or it might be hard to get what you want.

Using a VW Door with interior and exterior trim converted to a group has 5 objects. Four Extrudes and one group. The group has two extrudes, the interior and exterior face of the door leaf itself. A door with panels is more complicated having multiple CGS solids in the "Leaf" group.

It has to be this way so that different parts of the door can be assigned different classes, attributes and textures.

If you need a door to be one piece, you can convert to group, edit the group, ungroup the leaf, select all and Add Solids. Exit the group and Ungroup, and you will have a single solid addition to work with.

Pat

[AndiACD]

Marteen + Pat, i'm still using an older version of VW that doesn't have this "Stack Layers" option in the top bar of the screen. It maybe hidden somewhere else, but i don't think so.

In my version(11.5.1 the subsequent updates of VW didn't seem to solve this problem either) if a symbol you create has any 2D objects any where other than the root of the solids that make up the symbol it is categorised as a hybrid and as such can only be rotated in plan.

The symbol in question is made up of about 22 parts(a Gearcase BTW) each of which is constructed of several extrusions with solids added and subtracted so it's quite a complex piece. As long as i can still access and edit the various components once "Converted to Group" that'll be fine.

Thanx to both of you for the help, i'm off to see if i can attain my goal with it.

Edited July 27, 2008 by AndiACD

[AndiACD]

Well, i've tried your "Convert to Group" solution Pat but i still get told politely that although no longer considered a hybrid, VW can only rotate said object along the vertical axis.

So what happens, referring to your door instance, if a Boat Builder decides he wants to add a little nostalgia to a private yatch/sailing boat(mariners amoungst you please forgive any incorrect terms) he is building and wants the cabin doors to be on a 60? incline, so they remain where they are put and don't flap about?

What then?

Sorry Mr. Boat Builder by all means place a reduced hight access from the deck to your cabin but please note the hinges and any subsequent doors attatched must be vertical.

What happened to freedom of choice?

The Manual that came with VW is discoloured and dog eared from searching for a solution to this and other problems but if it IS covered therein, i'm afraid it's a little too well hidden.

[mike m oz]

Andi, you probably have one of the parametric object in your larger object that cannot be rotated from Top/Plan View, and it is this which is preventing the rotation.

You can have hybrid symbols with inclined part. In your boat cabi door instance you would model the 3D portion of the door so it was inclined correctly, then switch to a Top/Plan View and draw how you want the 2D part to look directly on top of the 3D part. Then with both the 2D and 3D parts selected create your hybrid symbol.

The 2D portion of a hybrid symbol or object is only visible in Top/Plan View, and all of the 3D is not visible. In all other views you can only see the 3D part of the hybrid symbol or object.

You can't rotate a hybrid symbol and most hybrid objects from their normal orientation in respect of the ground plane. You can however rotate the whole 'environment' view, and if needed work on the 3D portion in that view.

[AndiACD]

So mike, how do i go about searching for the parametric object and eliminate this factor from the headache?

And why the hell doesn't VW tell me that this is the problem?

If NNA can take all the trouble to create such pedantic rule and regs as to when an object can and can't be rotated(even if it doesn't happen in the real world) why can't i be told which part is causing the bottle neck and why?

Most other "Professional" pieces of kit at least give you a pointer as to the cause of the predicament. Not VW! Vague . . . . Work it out for yourself . . . . .

[AndiACD]

i forgot to mention. Rotating the ground/working plane is no use as it is the position of one part in relation to another that the importance of being able to rotate ANY/EVERY part as required is utmost.

[mike m oz]

Look for any objects that you have used from the Tool palettes. You will be able to see if it is the source of the problem by trying to rotate an in instance of it in another drawing.

With most of the modelling programs I have looked at rotating the environment is how you change your view to work on the object. You don't rotate the object.

[Pat Stanford]

When you did the Convert To Group, which of the three options did you select?

To make sure you don't have any @D remaining, you need to pick the second or third options (Convert nested symbols and plug-in objects or Convert all sub-objects). I would recommend the second as it should eliminate any hybrid objects.

For your use the rules may seem pedantic, but if you don't lighten up, you are going to keep hating VW. Personally, I hate the pedantic way I have to drive on the Right here in the US (yes, I am native born US), but it is just something that I have to accept.

VW hybrid objects were developed to allow easy working in Plan and 3D views "at the same time." One of the restrictions that model has created in the inability of hybrid objects to be rotated out of the plan.

If you don't like that limitation (and especially if you don't need the plan view), then don't use hybrid objects. Make your own objects/symbols, maybe starting with the VW ones and doing the Convert to Group thing.

My guess is that the plan rotation limitation of hybrid objects will be around for a long time.

Pat

[AndiACD]

Mike, i'll check that one out. Thanx.

Pat, i've always loved VW after it's change from MiniCAD, but, like i say the Mechanical/Machine version of VW should be a different Beast from Architect, Spotlight, etc. etc. because by the nature of things it's a different breed even if as close as the seed is at birth the nature of the Monster that evolves is very different and as such the app should cater for this.

i rarely use VW models other than gears and screws/nuts/bolts, so all of the models causing irritation are of my own design, starting using a 2D shape modified to obtain the necessary profile with the 2D Reshape tool, then extruding to the required depth adding and subtracting other solids to obtain the shape, holes and threads i need to arrive at the desired object.

But frustration strikes when a seemingly simple operation hits an obstacle for no apparent logical reason.

i know there IS a way around this problem, i have many many symbols that i have created in the past and since that will happily rotate in any view but i'm damned if i can suss out what it is that's causing the problem this time round.

i've tried everything i know and all of the suggestions offered here and elsewhere but so far to no avail.

i'll check the Convert options again.

Thanx Pat

[Pat Stanford]

I am out of the office most of today, but send me a file with the problem symbol and I will be glad to check it out for you.

In the Resource Browser does it say 2D/3D? Have you made all the classes visible when in the 2D edit mode?

Pat

[AndiACD]

The smallest file weighs in at 153 MB so i'll create a new one with the symbol in it. Do i send it to the User Group add?

As for the classes visibility i'll check that out too and get back to you.

The symbol displays neither 2D or 3D, and as i recall, this was something that resulted from suggestions brought up by Monaghan and Biplap when they were here. Something that is a result of the prefs chosen when creating the symbols. Might be mistaken there though.

it seems there are a plethora of extra options available with VW2008 that i wasn't fully aware of when i tried it out . . . . . .

[Pat Stanford]

I sent you a private message with an email address to send the file to.

[AndiACD]

Got it! Thanx Pat.

i'm still trying to make sure i've done everything that's been suggested here before mailing it.

Edited August 2, 2008 by AndiACD