Steve Frushour Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 When I put a brand new, expensive Radeon Mac Edition 32 MB video card in my Mac G3 I thought I was going to be in rendering heaven. Unfortunately, there seems to be some incompatibility problems. Namely, 1)object handles are invisible (unless the object is locked), and 2)the rules are grayed and show only the major divisions. The problems go away and return during a work session (I'm unable to determine what action it takes to cause the reversals). As you can guess, it is impossible to work without handles. Any guess as to the reason and how to fix this problem? ------------------ Link to comment
Pfister Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 I have the same problem with my new 533MHz G4 with NVIDIA GeForce" MX video-card!!! Reducing the colors to 256 solves the problems with VW but is not really a acceptable. According to a message on Apple Support Discussions replacing the NVIDIA drivers with the ATI drivers willhelp too!! ????? How knows more about this topic? Link to comment
Pfister Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 I have the same problem with my new 533MHz G4 with NVIDIA GeForce" MX video-card!!! Reducing the colors to 256 solves the problems with VW but is not really a acceptable. According to a message on Apple Support Discussions replacing the NVIDIA drivers with the ATI drivers willhelp too!! ????? How knows more about this topic? Link to comment
doug shaffer Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 hello - We are getting ready to purchase a new G4, and I just posted a question (in this forum) about whether or not to upgrade our order with a higher priced graphics card. Are others with the newest G4's and faster (32MB) graphics cards experiencing these problems? ------------------ d. s h a f f e r a r c h i t e c t Link to comment
GRC Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 The corrupted video problem has been around since VW8.5 and maybe earlier. I have seen various video corruptions on a Mac 6100 with G3 card, a Beige G3 and a new Powerbook. Everyone points the finger at everyone else. I think it is a VW problem. It occurs across many different video cards, and did not exist before VW 8.0. [This message has been edited by cosmiccosmic (edited 01-29-2001).] Link to comment
Robert Ditch Posted January 30, 2001 Share Posted January 30, 2001 I have a G4/400,128mb with a factory installed ATI Rage 32MB card and have had no problems at all. Bob Link to comment
Jack Fulmer Posted January 31, 2001 Share Posted January 31, 2001 I recently posted this repsonse to a question about hardware configurations, and am posting it again here in response to this thread because it seems relevant: I'm pretty sure that VW/RW isn't currently designed to make use of today's blazingly fast and wonderfully designed graphics accelerators and their respective GPU's. You'll have to ask NNA why. Check the approved application specs on most mid to high end cards (Elsa, 3DLabs, Hercules {which actually is Guillemot}, etc.) and you won't see VW mentioned anywhere. That being said, for the current release of VW/RW you should focus on CPU and RAM. Get the fastest and most you can, respectively. JF Link to comment
rjtiedeman Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 My office set me up with a new 533MHz G4 with NVIDIA GeForce" MX video-card. I have called Nemetschek tech support and Apple tech support with out any success. I replaced the drivers with the Radeon drivers and all seems to be ok but I have not seen any big increase in speed in fact I ran the Vector Test file and it is the same speed as an G3 500. Link to comment
Donald Wardlaw Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 quote: Originally posted by rjtiedeman: My office set me up with a new 533MHz G4 with NVIDIA GeForce" MX video-card. I have called Nemetschek tech support and Apple tech support with out any success. I replaced the drivers with the Radeon drivers and all seems to be ok but I have not seen any big increase in speed in fact I ran the Vector Test file and it is the same speed as an G3 500. I haved a new G4/466 with the nvidia card. Same problem no handles. Also when drawing lines or creating objects, the object is invisible during creation. My other computer with OS8.51 and an older video card has no such problem. I'll post more when I learn more. Donald Wardlaw Link to comment
Donald Wardlaw Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 I can confirm that changing the color depth to 256 colors does restore the selection handles. It also makes objects visible during creation. Fortunately for us, changing color depth via control strip is pretty easy. Donald Wardlaw Link to comment
doug shaffer Posted February 6, 2001 Share Posted February 6, 2001 NNA - PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS POSTING. THANK YOU. I just received my new G4 with ATI Radeon card... I have not selection handles in VW and the rulers are screwed up (numbers are visible, but no 'tick' marks.) When I switch to 256 colors, the problem IS NOT solved. What can I do to solve this problem. ------------------ d. s h a f f e r a r c h i t e c t Link to comment
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 Try disabling the ATI Resource Manager extension. Gerrit Vanoppen on the VectorWorks mailing list commented just today that this solved a similar problem on his machine. Caleb Strockbine caleb@nemetschek.net Link to comment
doug shaffer Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Caleb Strockbine: Try disabling the ATI Resource Manager extension. Gerrit Vanoppen on the VectorWorks mailing list commented just today that this solved a similar problem on his machine. Caleb Strockbine caleb@nemetschek.net Hello Caleb - Thanks for the tip. I tried disabling the ATI Reesources Manager extension, and my Ruler and Selection Handle problems were solved. However, with this extension not working, there is a serious degradation of graphics performance. Even when doing as simple as moving an open window on the desktop (with no applications open), an obvious 'regeneration' of the window occurs. Also, QD3D rendered Vectorworks models do not retain any rendering when rotated. (with the ATI Resource Manager extension enabled, rendering is retained beautifully) thanks for your help so far. I need to get this worked out ASAP. ------------------ d. s h a f f e r a r c h i t e c t Link to comment
huw roberts Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 quote: Originally posted by Steve Frushour: When I put a brand new, expensive Radeon Mac Edition 32 MB video card in my Mac G3 I thought I was going to be in rendering heaven. Unfortunately, there seems to be some incompatibility problems. Namely, 1)object handles are invisible (unless the object is locked), and 2)the rules are grayed and show only the major divisions. The problems go away and return during a work session (I'm unable to determine what action it takes to cause the reversals). As you can guess, it is impossible to work without handles. Any guess as to the reason and how to fix this problem? GET OFF THE MAC PLATFORM! Link to comment
Hannes Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Quote: GET OFF THE MAC PLATFORM! <gg>- Nonsens i think. Certain i understand NOTHING about Macs, but on Windows i had the same problems with the ATI Extensions. Hannes Link to comment
MikeB Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 I use VW on both the Mac and PC platform and over all the display on the mac is superior. I have a Rage 128 pro card in the mac with 16 MB and no problems. On the PC I've been haveing problems with text and PIO's not displaying after being inserted without forcing a screen regen by panning or zooming. I think it has a Nvida G-force card with 32 MB. Any way its not the platform Link to comment
doug shaffer Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Hello - I wanted to update this list with the latest on the ATI Radeon card issue. I was able to isolate the problem to one particular extension called 'ATI Graphics Accellerator', v. 5.3.4. The Extensions manager describes this extension as follows: Provides 2D Graphics Accelleration. Disabling this extension fixes the problems with the rulers and selection handles. It also allows for a QD3D model to retain it's rendering when rotated. HOWEVER, all basic operations, like moving an open window, scrolling, or clicking the 'favorites' tab in Internet Explorer are annoyingly slow. Do anyone have any thoughts about what steps I should take next? Should I try an older version of this extension? thanks again - ------------------ d. s h a f f e r a r c h i t e c t Link to comment
Donald Wardlaw Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Regarding the ATI Graphics Accellerator. My 466 came with v. 5.3.2. I'm running two monitors with a Rage Pro and nVidia cards. Currently one monitor is in shop, so just running off the nvidia. In case the ati extension, since it was loaded, was interfering, I disabled it, but it had no effect on the workings of the nvidia card, i.e. it did not rectify the handles problem. Color depth setting is still the workaround here. Link to comment
rjtiedeman Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 quote: Originally posted by doug shaffer: hello - I called Nemetschek Tech Support last week and was told that they were receiving an enormous number of calls reporting the problem with broken rulers and missing selection handles. The tech support person I spoke with said that at a MINIMUM, he had recieved 50 calls regarding the issue. I realize that these problem may be due confilcts between OS9.1 and the graphics drivers included with the video cards. However, because they seem only to be showing up in Vectorworks, I don't expect to get much help from Apple. I have called them several times and they claim to never have heard of the problem. I hope that Nemetschek can use its muscle with Apple to come up with a solution to this problem SOON. We are wasting too much time trying to solve it, and feel that we may be exhausting our possibilities for a solution. Disabling extensions that render the graphics card useless is a reasonable short term (one week?) solution, but we must have a long term solution soon. This is not a rant against Nemetschek. I just want some official response from them to assure us that Nemetschek is working hard on the problem. thanks - Link to comment
doug shaffer Posted February 13, 2001 Share Posted February 13, 2001 hello - I called Nemetschek Tech Support last week and was told that they were receiving an enormous number of calls reporting the problem with broken rulers and missing selection handles. The tech support person I spoke with said that at a MINIMUM, he had recieved 50 calls regarding the issue. I realize that these problem may be due confilcts between OS9.1 and the graphics drivers included with the video cards. However, because they seem only to be showing up in Vectorworks, I don't expect to get much help from Apple. I have called them several times and they claim to never have heard of the problem. I hope that Nemetschek can use its muscle with Apple to come up with a solution to this problem SOON. We are wasting too much time trying to solve it, and feel that we may be exhausting our possibilities for a solution. Disabling extensions that render the graphics card useless is a reasonable short term (one week?) solution, but we must have a long term solution soon. This is not a rant against Nemetschek. I just want some official response from them to assure us that Nemetschek is working hard on the problem. thanks - ------------------ d. s h a f f e r a r c h i t e c t Link to comment
doug shaffer Posted February 16, 2001 Share Posted February 16, 2001 Howdy - Here's the latest... I continue to have the problem discussed under the topic entitled 'Video Card Woes'. After much inquiry, and finger pointing between Apple and Nemetschek, I received this email from the Nemetschek Tech Support Manager. I called him and was assured that it IS indeed a Vectorworks issue, and that the 'engineering' department was working on it. He also told me that an interim solution (downloadable software fix) may be posted on the site soon, and that V9 (due 'shortly') will solve the 'Video Card Woes' problem. I hope this helps. d. s h a f f e r a r c h i t e c t Dear Nemetschek North America Customer: Thank you for your inquiry. We have been getting a number of customers having the same situation. Our Engineering dept is being made aware of this problem and I will be contacting you shortly with a possible solution to the problem. If you have any other questions, comments, or suggestions, please feel free to contact us at (410) 290-5114 (tel) or (410) 290-8050 (fax) or tech@nemetschek.net (e-mail). Respectfully, Mike S. Technical Support Manager Link to comment
UserName Posted February 17, 2001 Share Posted February 17, 2001 Well it's good that nemetshek is adressing the issue, it's a shame that Apple seems not to be. Other buletin boards and newsgroups apart from vectorworks (e.g. Flash) are alive with video card/ driver issues associated with the Mac OS. These forums suggest that updating Open GL extensions and turning off game sprockets might yield some results ??? Link to comment
Donald Wardlaw Posted February 20, 2001 Share Posted February 20, 2001 Hey Doug Shaffer, Thanks for getting to the bottom of it and letting the rest of us know what you found out. Donald Link to comment
Moonraker Posted February 21, 2001 Share Posted February 21, 2001 Well I doubt it is an OpenGL prob as VW does not support OGL yet Thats for OSX support coming soon. I used to have problems with a Voodoo3 PCI card but these were sorted with the Voodoo5 from 3DFX and latest drivers. Unfortunately 3DFX have now been swallowed by Nvidia... But I think many of these issues will be history once teh VW fir OSX is released with decent OGL support...then it will fly...Although it is a shame VW will not support multi-processors it will be Altivec enhanced. Link to comment
Ken Posted February 22, 2001 Share Posted February 22, 2001 This becomes a very frightening topic for those of us shopping for a new monitor! I just happen to be thinking about a new monitor and a new video card. I'm shocked to read about all this misery with missing handles in VW! Hopefully the next release of VW will have it solved? FYI, there's a web resource that compares graphic accelerators (on the Mac). It's at Macspeedzone. ------------------ Kenneth Link to comment
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