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brudgers

OLE! OLE! OLE!

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It's basic Windows.

The function calls are well established and the software libraries mature.

CSV is no substitute for an Excel spreadsheet.

And the text editor no substitute for Word.

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Good request, it took me a couple of minutes to figure out what you were talking about, but a good wish. The cross platform thing would probably get in the way though.

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Yep it was cool idea when it was called CyberDog

and any other number of names we've seen as tech demo's and product that died due to cross platform issues.

Maybe someone could build the idea based on IFC structured Info.

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Hi

I know most people are going to scream at me by saying this but...

Sometimes I think supporting cross platforms could be a hindrance. AutoDesk discontinued MAC support ages ago and went one route for this reason. OLE is a good request and although mac users will not admit it, Windows has some good features. I think the PC version of VectorWorks should be more tightly intergrated into Windows. Why should the PC version suffer because another operating system doesn't have these good features? MiniCAD 7 PC didn't have animation support whereas the MAC had so similarly I would like to see the PC version have features that MAC can't support.

OK, let the shouting begin :)...sorry.

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I've got a better idea. Just drop Windows support. It's on the way out anyway.

Then I'd like native Xgrid support added to RenderWorks.

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I'm with Christiaan, but how about support for iwork, its faster, easier and just better than Office. To be honest the capabilities are there for either platform.

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I love it.

"Windows has a useful feature not provided by OSX, so NNA should drop Windows."

1984 turns out to be like 1984.

Of course, the point of OLE is that it's not specific to MSOffice or any ...One can embed virtually any application...including other CAD files.

The trains may run on time, but the fruits of liberty are perhaps more sweet.

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Pay no attention to Christiaans Windows bashing, it's best ignored. At least he is the only one who posts these inappropriate comments.

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This doesn't need to a windows only or mac only thing, or a googleapps only thing.

There are many open documented standards out that could be adapted to do this same job on all platforms. What Google Apps are already doing shows that most of the features you'd want to embed could be done well using web protocols.

Easy to integrate as well, each player only needs to support webviews to render content in their application. We still need a nice documented way to display CAD/BIM data via a webview.

btw... the superdog pic really suits the topic.

Edited by iboymatt

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My comment was a little tongue in cheek. I was making a point, one that Natureboy seemed to get (and iboymatt). Why implement closed proprietary technologies when there are better open alternatives:

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=62624

VW already has an embedding technology; it's called Workgroup Referencing and it already supports PDF. The logical step is to support ODF too.

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Lest we forget that MAC had "Publish&Subscribe" first ... and that WGR works pretty darn well ...and that cross platform security holes are a reality regardless of which platform you are using. Browsers are "cross platform" protocol dependent options and basically define the problem. As are the OpenSource Ports which link into exiting library structures to allow universal interoperability via scripting languages.

Exactly what Vectorscript does with VW. So on the MAC side just expand VS to use system events and application events based on Applescript > Automator.

Or use WGR to send along active scripts rather then just embedding them ...which would in theory allow manipulation of data throughout the entire VW directory structure . The upside potential is offset by the downside risks.

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To me it sounds like the eggheads in the big chairs making all the money(i.e Bill and Steve)need to stop their argument and learn to work together better. This will help all of us the end user.

OOOPS! Sorry I was dreaming a little there.

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This doesn't need to a windows only or mac only thing, or a googleapps only thing.

There are many open documented standards out that could be adapted to do this same job on all platforms. What Google Apps are already doing shows that most of the features you'd want to embed could be done well using web protocols.

Easy to integrate as well, each player only needs to support webviews to render content in their application. We still need a nice documented way to display CAD/BIM data via a webview.

btw... the superdog pic really suits the topic.

I don't want to embed features.

I want to be able to link data created in other applications into my documents.

OLE allows one to show another applications data, while keeping the data in its native (proprietary) format.

Its the feature which allows all features to be possible (hyperbolically speaking).

I should be able to display dynamic information from my favorite spreadsheet, rather than having to choose between importing a static PDF, or clunk along with a native VW worksheet.

The worksheet does one thing really well; link to database entities.

But compared to a dedicated spreadsheet, it's a dog for general purpose use.

I can get it to do most of the things I want, but it's an unpleasant experience.

Rather than NNA wasting time to change worksheets and text editing from a chihuahua to a dachshund, implement a basic OS feature which allows the user to choose the most appropriate tool for tasks outside Vectorworks core competency.

How hard can it be?

Surely, OSX has some similar capability

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The recent request for adding full text justification could easily be provided through OLE.

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While OSX may have something similar to OLE, since VW is not a Windows-only application, it would seem that the best development approach for VW would be to use formats that are truly platform-neutral (unlike OLE).

With MS announcing that Office will natively support ODF, XML and PDF in 2009, using one of these would seem a better direction than OLE.

Microsoft Expands List of Formats Supported in Microsoft Office

The 2007 Microsoft Office system already provides support for 20 different document formats within Microsoft Office Word, Office Excel and Office PowerPoint. With the release of Microsoft Office 2007 Service Pack 2 (SP2) scheduled for the first half of 2009, the list will grow to include support for XML Paper Specification (XPS), Portable Document Format (PDF) 1.5, PDF/A and Open Document Format (ODF) v1.1.

Maybe a combination of XML format spreadsheets connected to a local PHP database.

My two cents..

Tim

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I don't need a darn php database supporting an xml spreadsheet.

I'm not an IT manager.

I don't know what OSX supports.

But it appears the Mac cohort tends to miss the point.

OLE isn't about supporting particular data formats like pdf, doc, xml, etc.

OLE support would allow one to double click on a PDF document in a Vectorworks document and thereby open Adobe Acrobat, Corel Draw, PDFEdit995, or any other application that the user chooses to associate with that file type.

Then make the desired edits, close the application, and have the changes appear in VW.

And the file types which can be accessed are not limited to those selected by NNA for implimentation.

If sketchup supports OLE and Vectorworks supports OLE then native sketchup data can be linked or embeded in a Vectorworks file.

All Vectorworks has to support is OLE and a huge variety of workflows are available.

Natureboy can use iwork, iboymatt can use googleapps, you can roll your own custom xml spreadsheet linking to php databases, and I can use lotus123...all while NNA is developing some nifty feature rather than trying translate every possible file format.

I'm getting the sense that the only real problem is OSX.

Surely I'm mistaken.

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Instead of turning this into yet another thread about Mac -vs- Windows, my point was that however NNA decides to build the engine driving VectorWorks, my opinion is that it should be based on open source technology. That's all.

And yes, you're absolutely right that I don't know what OLE is or what it can do. My apologies if I offended anyone with my ignorance about Windows.

Regards,

Tim

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As a note to brudgers, I also like rDesign did not intend to offend anyone. I also feel that VW should be based on open technology, and if OLE works for the PC, and something else works for the MAC, GREAT, This should be about making VW better for all, not just one platform. After all WE are the end users and this forum is a great source for shared experience and improving the core of the program through discussion.

That said MAC is better!

Just Kidding!

I am not a programer but I am sure this conundrum can be solved.

Any way you look at it its all better than the old PC and MAC days of old. You know GREEN SCREEN. Technology is grand and moving rapidly and even though it seems like NNA dose not listen they obviously do just check out the post on SP3 updates. If we discus they will listen and modify.

There I hope that plug was worth something.

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OpenDoc I think was a similar technology on Mac before Mac OS X. There's nothing built into Mac OS X that's similar that I know of.

With the likes of technologies like XML, supporting a proprietary technology like OLE doesn't sound like progress.

By the way how would Natureboy use iWork if OLE isn't supported on Mac? And if OLE was supported on VW for Windows what happens when I Mac-user gets a file containing any number of these links?

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Christiaan,

Good question! I don't know how to get it done I'm not a programer. But iwork or office work well on Mac and would like to have an easier method for worksheets, via excel or numbers and text applications. Maybe I am not well versed on worksheets in VW, but maybe thats because they are not the easiest to deal with. Thus the first request for OLE by brudgers. Just looking for improvements and ease of use like everyone else.

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supporting a proprietary technology like OLE doesn't sound like progress.

Kind of like supporting a proprietary technology like Xgrid doesn't sound like progress...

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OpenDoc I think was a similar technology on Mac before Mac OS X. There's nothing built into Mac OS X that's similar that I know of.

With the likes of technologies like XML, supporting a proprietary technology like OLE doesn't sound like progress.

By the way how would Natureboy use iWork if OLE isn't supported on Mac? And if OLE was supported on VW for Windows what happens when I Mac-user gets a file containing any number of these links?

The same thing which happens anytime one receives a file with an embedded/linked object for which they don't have a supporting application...it doesn't work.

Hardly the worst thing, since the workaround is the same as it is today...link in a PDF.

My opinion is that the user should be the one determining the relative values of expedience and interoperablity.

They're the one best able to do so.

Even homogenious large organizations often set standards regarding the implimentation or prohibition of features.

It's only slightly different from exchanging files between recent and older versions of Vectorworks, and no different from exchanging files between Vectorworks and Autocad.

I am not trying to turn this into a Mac v Windows thread (that fruit is just too low hanging).

I don't know about the workings of OSX.

If it doesn't support compound documents (beyond its ability to run other operating systems) that doesn't affect the utility of being able to do so.

Nor offer a significant reason why the basic technology should not be available within Vectorworks.

---

For those unfamiliar with OLE, it has been around since Windows 3.1 in the early 90's.

Here is the link at Darth Billius' site:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/86008

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supporting a proprietary technology like OLE doesn't sound like progress.

Kind of like supporting a proprietary technology like Xgrid doesn't sound like progress...

That was my point of mentioning it; that the Mac-version gets held back by Windows too.

On the other hand supporting Xgrid wouldn't create cross-platform compatibility problems as OLE would.

Also, my point about progress is that surely there are newer more suitable technologies out there than OLE?

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Opensourceplatformindependentphpxmletc support is a major undertaking.

OLE is low hanging fruit...

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