This certain kind of lag

[Christiaan]

Quote from Sean Flaherty: http://www.architosh.com/features/2008/chatside/nemetschek/080307_4a.html

Generally in this release we have made a big push to keep the same kind of feeling overall, because people get into a VectorWorks rhythm as they draw and they like things to happen at this certain kind of lag. It is comparable to 12.5.

Can I be the first to say that not only do we not like "things to happen at this certain kind of lag" but we think this is the worst aspect of VectorWorks. We may get "into it" in the sense that we have no other choice but we don't get into it because we like it.

We don't want lag, we want snappy. Making "a big push" for lag boggles the mind.

We'll be upgrading our machines to intel-based Macs soon to get a bit of the snappy back but it's my guess that there's a lot of room for optimisation in VectorWorks, and if there is it would be near the top if not at the top of our wishlist.

[CipesDesign]

It's hard to believe he actually said that, or that anyone actually printed it. I find it unbearably annoying when a program (any program) can't keep pace with my key or mouse strokes. So I agree Christiaan, this is not a good thing... Sean, are you listening??

[Greg_at_ils]

I too find it just incredible that he would even say such a thing. Is he trying to convince us or just himself? Who in their right mind would like a lag in performance? This is actually the main reason I switched over the ACAD for several years and only just now have tried VW again.

Sean, are you listening??

Apparently not.

[Pat Stanford]

I read this differently.

I hear him saying that yes there is a lag, but that VW2008 is about the same as VW12.5. I think he was trying to point out the VW2008 is not any different that whre we were before.

I don't see him saying that they tried to make it lag, but rather tried to keep it the same even with more features added.

Pat

[Christiaan]

Pat, agreed, that was my reading of part of what he was saying too, but you can't say the same for this part:

... they like things to happen at this certain kind of lag.

The only answer to this is: no, we don't.

Instead of making a major push for the status quo, why not make a major push for optimisation and a faster application?

[rDesign]

The lag in v2008 (on my dual G5 with 3.5GB RAM) was slowing me down so much that I bought a new MacBook Pro, which brought the speed back up to 12.5.3 levels. But to have to buy a brand new top-of-the-line machine just so the new version runs as fast as the old version, is not right.

I completely agree that instead of new features I think optimization of the current application should be NNA's priority. (I'd bet there's still code in there from the MiniCad days).

I recall in that article Sean mentioned there's no quantitative way to measure VW's performance speed across platforms and versions. It seems like it should be possible to write a Vectorscript to run a test suite of operations on a test file and note the time it takes to run. Then everyone could test whether in fact, the new version is as fast as the old version.

Because Time does equal Money.

Tim

[AndiACD]

i was so disappointed with the "lack" of improvement with VW2008 i stuck with my now ancient 11.5.1 and G5 Dual and when i asked another user of this board

"Bruce, does VW2008 actually make full use of the Mac's intel multi processor capabilities?" he replied that he didn't know of or wasn't aware of it.

A sad state of affairs.

Processor power is there and the software should take FULL advantage of it.

Maybe it's time for a "From the Ground Up" rewrite. Same GUI but better, smoother, running gear!

Not "keeping up with the Jones's", but thrashing them!!

[islandmon]

For those of us who've been practicing CAD for our entire adult lives .. it's exactly like playing music ... the timing & sequencing & smoothiness really do matter . A lagging palette or glitches in the screen redraw... equal mental anguish. A sudden crash is devastating !

We can become so entirely focused on the project that our entire being is absorbed into the program ... on a good day ... we become the CAD.

Photoshop is the gold standard because it provides creative artists both pure functionality and total predictability ... across all versions & platforms ... this is not an accident.

[Christiaan]

WIthout being a programmer I'm possibly talking out of line here but, at least from my experience as a user of software I know that additional functionality does not always have to mean slower software with a need for faster hardware.

I think maybe their just needs to be a re-prioritisation with regard to optimisation over new features.

I don't know, maybe this is just a product of the PowerPC to x86 transition with v2008 being optimised for x86 processors. Maybe once we're all using Intel-based Macs we won't have these complaints? Is it a coincidence that those of us commenting here appear to be PowerPC users?

[rDesign]

Christiaan-

I was on a dual-processor PowerPC G5 with 12.5 and VW2008, but I'm now on an Intel MacBookPro with VW2008. So not everyone complaining here is on PPC. I'm on Intel - and I'm one of the 'complainers'.

My switch to Intel definitely helped reduce the lagging in VW2008 (although VW2008 is crashing MUCH more frequently than it did on my G5 with 12.5, but that's for another thread).

Tim

[Christiaan]

Well, there you go.

I have to say, though, I appreciate Sean is talking about this stuff openly. I just happen to disagree with him vehemently.

[AndiACD]

No disgrace Christian, comments and criticism are what drive products forward(at least one would hope they did), and if WE didn't state our findings, "resting on their laurels" becomes the order of the day and things stagnate.

Maybe we don't always get direct feedback, but hopefully, it gets them thinking!!